The mess that is Michigan's proposed anti-bullying law...

Discussion in 'Civil Rights' started by Corfieldb, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Corfieldb

    Corfieldb New Member

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    [​IMG]

    With friends like you, who needs enemies? (Or, how to totally (*)(*)(*)(*) up anti-bullying legislation)

    The State of Michigan is trying to come up their version of an anti-bullying law. Named in honor of 14 year old Matt Epling who committed suicide after being bullied over a period of time by other kids. Michigan is one only three States left in the Country that don't have an anti-bullying law in place.

    Its certainly right of them to address this issue seriously. State Democrats have tried in vain for ten years to enact some anti-bullying legislation, only to be met with opposition by their Republican counterparts. Not to mention some social conservatives who have expressed a concern that making special laws for those being bullied was a "Trojan Horse" or a sham to simply advance the "homosexual agenda."

    It seems as the calendar turned to November, the Michigan Senate was prepared to act. The Bill, Michigan SB 0137, was basically intact and ready for a vote. Ironically, SB 0137 was a Republican Bill, sponsored by Rick Jones. In the GOP controlled Michigan Senate, it seemed the right language had been found. The name of the Bill?

    "Matt's Safe School Law"

    Then shortly before the final vote on this, at the eleventh hour, new language was added to the Bill by Republicans. The new part reads as follows:

    (8) THIS SECTION DOES NOT ABRIDGE THE RIGHTS UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OR UNDER ARTICLE I OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION OF 1963 OF A SCHOOL EMPLOYEE, SCHOOL VOLUNTEER, PUPIL, OR A PUPIL'S PARENT OR GUARDIAN. THIS SECTION DOES NOT PROHIBIT A STATEMENT OF A SINCERELY HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEF OR MORAL CONVICTION OF A SCHOOL EMPLOYEE, SCHOOL VOLUNTEER, PUPIL, OR A PUPIL'S PARENT OR GUARDIAN.

    Once this new section became public, Matt's Father, Kevin Epling wrote a letter...

    To continue, click here...
     
  2. botenth

    botenth Banned

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    But you can teach and control it in school.

    Good place to begin is to start the day with the Lord's Prayer !
     
  3. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    No, you can't control it in school. I was bullied for refusing to say the Lord's Prayer in junior high 55-years ago. Our President Obama is a bully and gets cheered for it.

    When I was in school, a long time ago, the last thing in the world you'd want to do is to run whining to the teacher. And the last thing the teacher wanted was to hear from you.

    Twenty years ago three boys on the school bus wanted to fight my son. So, he stayed on the bus and rode it back to the bus barn behind the school. Here came the three kids. He asked the bus drivers to simply watch so if trouble started they could do something. Nope, not our job. The three kids jumped my son and my son got suspended.

    Bullying laws will make people feel really, really good about themselves. They might manage to generate a few more lawsuits. That's all.
     
  4. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

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    I think there are two problems with bullying

    First off, we've effectively disarmed the potential victims by preventing them from doing anything about the problem themselves and further complicated the problem by making it neigh on impossible for the teachers to do anything about it without fear of reprisals. In the past, kids would deal with a bully by fighting back pretty much in kind. You can't do that without being suspended from school if not expelled and sent to anti-violence counciling. If you go to the teach, she may or may not be able to do anything about it because teachers have to be careful of being too mean to a kid and thus bringing trouble to herself for "picking on" the little bugger. The parents will pretty much go straight to the principle who's under pressure to appease parents who can't accept that their child needs discipline. What that means is that if you're determined to be anti-social there's nothing really to stop you. Now we need a special law to deal with what should be a simple in-the-classroom problem. Of course the law is harsh -- it has to deal with an uncontrollable problem in legal terms because it can't be dealt with in any other way.
     
  5. lardbeetle

    lardbeetle New Member

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    Yes. Right. Perfect for a modern, secular nation.

    Move to Saudi Arabia, why don'tcha? Please keep religion out of my school. Your beliefs belong with you and your church and your family, not me and my family and our school. I would not push my atheism in a school where your child may be there to object, and you should not push your theism in a school where my child may be there to object.

    That is, unless it's a private school. Then you can do what you want, since I wouldn't be funding it in any way.
     
  6. micfranklin

    micfranklin Banned

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    This sums it up pretty well I guess.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCUJEWuyow"]Bullies : Foamy The Squirrel - YouTube[/ame]
     
  7. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I tried to chase down the fathers letter through the links. No luck. However, I thought this statistic was worth mentioning. 10 people committed suicide in Michigan in a 10 year span, due to bullying (information contained in the link chase)

    Argueably...one suicide due to bullying in Michigan in a year, can be interpreted as doing something right. Or, in the liberal mindset, does the pursuit of the proverbial perfection, and generating new legislation and bureaucratic red tape, towards that end, really save a life?

    Everyone wants zero deaths due to bullying. They only had one that year. In the year 2021...will there be zero bullying deaths throughout that decade due to this legislation?

    The obvious answer is no. The added bureaucracy won't stop bullying or suicides related to bullying. It is easy to create a cause, for the possible saving of a childs life, and that arguement has sentimental merit obviously, but it fails in the face of reality.

    Which begs the question, to me anyways...why is this legislation being pushed, by whom, and for what reason?
     
  8. Phone Guy

    Phone Guy Banned

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    The reality is that bullying will happen with our without laws around it. From my experience as a parent and former public school teacher, it's usually the parents of the bully who is at fault for the behavior of their child(ren).

    In my opinion, when a kid starts to bully, I would recommend financially fining the parents of the bully. You would be AMAZED at how quickly parents react to their kid's behavior when there are financial consequences for them!

    In fact, I like that idea for truancy, when homework isn't completed on time, for disrupting the classroom, etc. I think I may be on to something!
     
  9. micfranklin

    micfranklin Banned

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    Not the best idea to be fining people for everything, particularly when everyone in the economy is already strapped for cash as it is.
     
  10. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    that will never be realized. Watch the behavior of cats and dogs. They all jockey for alpha status. Humans are no different no matter how many passages of the Bible you have read.
     
  11. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Bigotry can only be condoned and encouraged by religion.

    In all other walks of life, such bigotry is inexcusable.
     
  12. Black Monarch

    Black Monarch New Member

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    If your kids are being bullied, send them to school with tasers. Problem solved.

    Also, can we get a law specifically prohibiting laws from being named after dead people? I'm sick of all this "so-and-so's law" legislation.
     
  13. Corfieldb

    Corfieldb New Member

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    Update:

    Michigan Senate Does the Right Thing Re: Anti-Bullying Law...

    The good people in the Michigan State Senate have agreed to drop their anti-bullying Bill and adopt the House version. I wrote back on November 11th, 2011 about this. The controversy was the Republican controlled Senate's version which included language that some called a "license to bully." The phrase "sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction" was interpreted by some as problematic, to the point of possibly permitting some harassment by teachers and/or students.

    As I said then, I think both Parties played politics with this, which is pitiful. I suspect the American Family Association of Michigan will not be pleased, but overall, a good thing has been done.

    "Matt's Safe School Law" will now proceed to the Governor Rick Snyder's desk for signature.

    Read more here...
     
  14. JohnJefferson

    JohnJefferson New Member

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    The government should not have to pass any law regarding anti-bullying, especially since 99% of the people that will be prosecuted or effected by that law are under the age 18. And on this point, I think it is a violation of the Bill of Rights, if someone wants to call someone else a name, then they should be able to do that. If it's a child, then it is the responsibility of the child's PARENT or TEACHER to discipline that child and make sure he understands it's not acceptable. Note, it's not the responsibility of the government.

    It's these types of laws are leading us closer and closer to fascism... how long before we can't say anything bad about other people's religions, political views, or ability to play sports? Do we really want to become the kind of world where if we don't have anything nice to say, we can't say anything at all?

    edit- Sorry about bumping such an old post...
     
  15. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    One of the easiest ways to end bullying is to hold the teachers and staff members accountable for not stopping it. I read a story in the Indianapolis Star a few weeks back about a young man who commited suicide after years of prolonged bullying. Apparently, the schools' staff knew about it and did nothng.
     
  16. Oakchair

    Oakchair Banned

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    No one should be surprised that republicans are pro bullying
     
  17. frank28

    frank28 Newly Registered

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    Schools need to take the issue of bullying seriously. Stop thinking of it as simply meeting a criteria or another legislative overreaching demand. Creating an atmosphere of safety and zero tolerance, where bullying is simply understood as unacceptable, is critical to the long lasting change and ensuring youth security and well being. Assemblies with staff will not accomplish this. It’s about culture change.
     
  18. merritt1986

    merritt1986 New Member

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    Mental Dissonance and also Hypocrisy
    There's a mental health theory named Mental Dissonance, proposed simply by Leon Festinger with 1957, which usually posits men and women are unable to accept contradictions in their cognitions, as well as views. So what on earth we do can be perform psychological manipulations that slow up the soreness of those inside contradictions. With ordinary words, most of us training hypocrisy. Yes, many of us are hypocrites, nevertheless many of us don’t comprehend it. I would not leave out myself personally with this group. My spouse and i, too, am some sort of hypocrite; you can observe my own hypocrisy better than this, just like I can see your hypocrisy better than the thing is that the item.
    When it comes to hypocrisy, anti-bully mindset flies off of the maps. But, due to cognitive dissonance theory, no one appears to be alert to this particular hypocrisy. “School bullying” is very much the lowest amount of marked by controversy cultural issue in the good humankind. Anyone within the whole politics selection, coming from much directly to way left, considers this can be a good thing for educational institutions to have anti-bully plans. Each and every contest along with religious beliefs has got on the anti-bully group. The only real content you'll find wherever of which concern the value of anti-bully software programs usually are composed by yours truly. Brian Johnson, a new Canadian psycho therapist, conducted any meta analysis of the study on total classes anti-bullying applications. This individual found out that 86% in the printed reports indicated that this system had no benefit at all or built the problem more painful. Nevertheless he or she seemingly could hardly feel his very own studies, in addition to reduced his or her intellectual dissonance through advising several logic behind why educational facilities should continue most of these plans regardless of the medical evidence of their own spoiled course files.
     
  19. merritt1986

    merritt1986 New Member

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    Mental Dissonance along with Hypocrisy
    There exists a mental principle known as Cognitive Dissonance, offered by means of Leon Festinger inside 1956, which posits that individuals can not endure contradictions in their cognitions, or perhaps views. Just what exactly we all do can be accomplish emotional manipulations which lessen the pain of the interior contradictions. Throughout everyday vocabulary, all of us training hypocrisy. Of course, many of us are hypocrites, nevertheless all of us don’t realize it. I wouldn't don't include me personally out of this category. I, also, am a new hypocrite; you will notice the hypocrisy a lot better than that, just like I noticed your current hypocrisy superior to the thing is the idea.
    turnthepagellc.com
     
  20. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It seems that DEHUMANIZING (at least verbally) others using "religion" is acceptable.

    Eventually, some kid is going to lose it in the biggest way(s)... and the ensuing "tragedy" WILL likely spawn serious legislation and be talked about for decades.

    Religion is fine, when it's not used to violate others' individual rights and to dehumanize.
     
  21. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama is very touchy about his weird ears. I think he was emotionally scarred, and there should have been some sort of legislation to make it not happen anymore.

    Teasing kills.
     
  22. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    Teasing kills because the system has long since prevented anything that would actually stop the bully. In the past, a bully would find himself face to face with 6-8 of his victims, ready to take matters into their own hands. Or they'd be dealt with by a teacher taking them to detention or making them write sentences at recess or something like that. We've made those kinds of solutions impossible. It's hard for teachers to discipline any student -- parents won't allow it, and may very well go to the principal who's gong to take the parent's side. You can't have your kid slap the bully for harrassing him every day -- that's violence, and we have a zero tolerance for violence. What that leaves is putting up with bullies for decades, or suicide.

    I don't think for a moment that we intentionally decided that bullies should be allowed to terrorize students, but what we have done is effectively disempower the victims to do anything about the violence. The bullies aren't any worse than they were in 1955, but the solutions available in 1955 aren't there anymore, leaving the teased without hope.
     
  23. CanadianEye

    CanadianEye Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I posted earlier in the thread, there is one death a year in Michigan attributed to bullying. They want to legislate perfection to zero deaths.

    It is a fools errand to chase this liberal utopian nonsense, and I do not subscribe to that foolishness.
     
  24. b.eastman12

    b.eastman12 New Member

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    Sadly, bullying cannot be controlled, and we cannot get rid of it completely. However, we CAN raise awareness. As silly as this law may sound, and as futile as it may be, at least it begins to spread some awareness to such an important issue.

    That being said, I feel that the schools itself should be the first ones in charge of raising awareness, and not the state itself. Sure, let the lawmakers pat themselves on their backs for passing a law, but make sure the schools don't hold back on spreading the message. An antibullying message within a school is much more meaningful than one from the state government. Kids are more likely to listen to teachers who they know and respect more so than political leaders who they barely have feelings towards.

    A silly state law against bullying causes no harm, but it takes much much more than simply words on paper to fight back against bullying.
     
  25. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is exactly how I feel. It's not so much that legislation is needed to stop bullying, but our kids have no way to fight back anymore. The burden is basically on the victim to leave, even if they were doing nothing wrong in the first place.

    Bullying is a disruption of the school environment and should be treated as such. What do you do with something or someone that is disruptive? You remove it from the environment completely. Boot these bullies right out of school. Obviously not as the first action, but after repeated attempts to deal with the matter with less harsh means. I saw someone suggest a financial penalty for parents that don't get their kids in line. I can sort of agree with that, but it also punishes parents that simply can't control their children. That's a reality, because children are people too, with minds of their own, and you can teach a child from sun-up till sundown, and the decision to use that knowledge and what they've learned is still up to them. You can't make a child not be a bully, but you can take action to make it an unenjoyable thing to do. Community service, detention, suspension, mandatory essays, counseling, there are a whole host of options that can be explored.
     

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