the thing is that there are entire black communities that have schools where its dangerous to go to, so i believe that black people in general shouldn't get a boost in everything because the rest of us are left out, but instead make great opportunities for someone, whether black or white, to a person in Compton... and let the Bev. Hills kids who has always gone to a better school have a higher curve to meet

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If we do not learn from our past we have opted to make the same mistakes in the future

Free crack?

I bet it would reduce the crime and murder rate dramatically. Of course, if blacks usually kill each other, that might not be such a good thing. It's sorta their way of 'culling the herd'.....

Through the public school system, blacks have just as much an opportunity for an education as whites.

Do you really believe that public schools in black communities are as good as the public schools in the average white community? Everything I've ever seen suggests that public schools in poor or urban communities tend to be dramatically inferior to those in middle-class or better neighborhoods, and this would, of course, disproportionately affect black neighborhoods.

The problem is that most of the remaining inequality is not being seen for what it is:
1. class... Blacks make up a disproportionate number of the poor and working poor. The problems they recognize as problems of the "black community" are really problems of the poor, particularly the urban poor- lousy schools, high crime, lack of opportunity, lack of capital, etc. They are better framed as problems of the poor than racially based problems.
2. social/cultural... There are no legislative barriers left really, but there are many social and cultural issues... more difficult because government can't do much. And in order to be addressed they must be brought up and brought to people's attention- but when this happens, people freak out.

I've had at least 3 employers who would discriminate against blacks. All low-skill jobs. Putting together that blacks disproportionately make up the class that is most likely to need these kind of jobs... and those jobs are disproportionately likely to discriminate when possible- that does equal a net loss of opportunity.
People seem to think this doesn't happen anymore, but I've seen direct evidence. Employers get a little loose-lipped around people they think sympathize with them (similar to how guys, when they're together, will often say a lot of disgusting crap about women- another annoying part of working those crappy bottom-rung jobs). I've actually seen people toss applications into the can over race.
No regulation will stop that. It's already illegal. They get around it.
Nothing short of cultural change will stop it.

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"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

if we will address the issues of poverty and try to help all poor people to overcome their impoverished condition i think that would allow our nation to simultaneously dissolve many of the racial injustices that are now present
i don't think there are many white citizens who are opposed to equality but there are a great number who cannot support affirmative action as it is presently constructed. that absence of support is due to the paradox of eliminating racial inequality by using racial identity as a mechanism to determine which citizens are to receive special perks set-aside for an identified few. it is not the desire to promote equality that is opposed but the methodology of using ethnicity to withhold help from the majority population. even if those white citizens are in as desperate an economic circumstance as members of the black population the poor whites are denied access to that government provided economic help. that ineligibility to receive governmental help only because of one's color is truly a form of discrimination which is often termed "reverse-descrimination"
the John Edwards' campaign hamhandedly emphasized this need to help the underclass as its core platform issue. once he withdrew we have seen no focus on economic issues for the underclass. and it is the underclass which needs and deserves help the most. that portion of our society crosses all racial boundaries. yes, blacks, hispanics and American natives will be disproportionately represented on the rolls of the poor who need a hand to emerge from poverty but all who are impoverished will be eligible for help. [i am speaking of self-help here and not welfare for the able]
it is in our self interest to recognize that those who have no stake in our society, who own nothing worthy of protecting, when it comes time to torch their neighborhood ... or burn down your neighborhood, there is little reason not to light the match in times of riot. by giving the underclass a means to acquire something worthy of protecting from harm's way, we also protect the holdings of those who are not poor. that's what is in it for the average citizen who is not in poverty, even if that being the right thing to do is not enough.
so to answer the OP's question. African-Americans want the same thing you want, a fair opportunity to succeed. separate but unequal will not get us there. neither will ignoring the issue or allowing politicians to divide us by color for their own purposes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushfan http://www.politicalforum.com/images...s/viewpost.gif Pelosi calls Mr. Bush a Failure in Eeverything. You just can't hide a public eduation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusticus Rove is s the slime on which this whole administration slid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha And spending money is nothing more than another form of voting.

But schools are regulated by state standards. Black kids in urban schools are required to know the same things as white kids in those suburban whitebread schools.

Personally, I blame the culture they live in. A friend of mine (white) is a teacher in an all-black high school, who says that it's "accepted" to be dumb in school. To get an "A" in class, sometimes might get you labeled an "Uncle Tom." It happens, and he's seen it first hand. My friend constantly talks to his kids, trying to break them of this "hip to be stupid" attitude. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

Here, you have a white person desperately trying to get his kids to succeed, whereas the culture these kids live in, is desperately trying to keep these kids in failure. Is it still Whitey's fault? I know peer pressure is a [female dog], but sooner or later, you have to isolate the problem, and attack it for what it is. Otherwise, we're going to have droves of ignorant black people in this country, blaming everything and anything for their condition, while avoiding the real source of blame.

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Political Affiliation: Zod

"The mods won't let you call a moron a 'moron'." --" the former, BillyBobaganoosh

But is it really poverty? There are tons of entitlement programs available that can literally pull folks out of poverty, almost automatically. Welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing. It's all there for those who truly want to get out of poverty, and make something of themselves.

I know someone who grew up in the ghetto, and he constantly tells me "there's always money in the 'hood. Always." It's what those in poverty DO with their money, is what can be debated.

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Political Affiliation: Zod

"The mods won't let you call a moron a 'moron'." --" the former, BillyBobaganoosh

But without the resources (books, computers, tutors) and parental backing to actually do it!
When you keep a bar high, you need to supply the tools for reaching that bar. Otherwise it just affirms the hopelessness of the situation.

Oh, like the lower-middle class white culture I grew up in isn't anti-intellectual?
The problem is probably greater in urban areas, but it has a lot to do with a lot of things. When your parents don't know much about success, all they can train you for is what they understand... even if it no longer works.
When you have crime high in your area, there is a competative system for gaining status faster- and getting protection rather than being under attack.
When your schools are feeble and cannot get across why you need to learn a bunch of stuff that doesn't seem applicable to life, it sdoesn't do much to get your hopes up for academic success.

But really... all this was common culture in my neighborhood as well (minus the impact of criminals). But our schools were far superior and we had more preparation for tech schools and we just have more businesses around hiring the people with low skill.
I don't think the mentality of the typical white kid I grew up with was all that much different. Poverty teaches people how to get by in poverty. We need schools to teach kids to get ahead (like the rich kids' schools do) and first we need them to teach parents.

It's easy to claim it's all culture and glorify your own. We tend to do the same thing when talking about foreign countries. But whatever influence culture might have, it is ridiculous to downplay the very real and tangible factors created by poverty and high crime.
Culture is shaped by environment even more than it shapes environment... but either way, it's a cycle.

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"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

That would be the problem wouldn't it?
There are greater opportunities in the underground economy than in the legitimate one. Or at least that is how it appears.

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"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

Now theres an idea!