WHO WERE THE FIRST SLAVES?

blacks (is it o.k. to use the term?) assert they were enslaved by white americans more than 400 years ago.. is this really true? i heard that blacks were sold into slavery long before they were shipped out of africa.. tribal chiefs in africa accepted money, or other items of value, for selecting the young, strong men of their village or tribe and sold them to contractors who put them onto ships bound for the americas.. in other words, black men were slaves long before they stepped of the boat in north america, and they were sold out by their own tribal or village leadership whom they entrusted to watch over them and their villages.. yes or no?

blacks place great importance on the bible.. they quote it frequently in their services and in daily life.. they quote passages from the bible that reference the isrealites in bondage under the egyptians.. blacks sing of the israelites' bonds being broken and leaving to search for the promised land.. martin luther king references these events in his "i have a dream" speech..

so, do the israelites pre-date blacks as a group who were held as slaves by egyptians and other conquering forces? have the israelites (jews) been held in bondage longer, according to the bible, than blacks have? what about persecutions against blacks? do blacks assert that other nations or cultures have enslaved them aside from america? i haven't heard anything about blacks being enslaved by any country other than america..

what about jews? what enslavement or disparagement have they suffered since biblical times? jews have traditionally been assigned the lowest social position in many cultures, especially in europe.. they were marked as money-lenders at usurious rates; they were stigmatized as jewelers, merchants and close frineds of those with power and political influence.. they were castigated as always looking out for their own..

now, we are in the 1930s.. hitler is in power and his primary mission is to eliminate jews from germany, as well as other ethnic groups (gypsies and most east europeans).. bottom line, hitler's reich exterminated more than 6 million jews.. with all that jews have endured since biblical times (approx. 4,000 years, or ten times longer than blacks claim in slavery), jews have assimilated into every society in which they found themselves.. they are successful, hold high positions and have contributed much to civilization.. certainly, blacks have contributed much to every culture where they found themselves, but what about the other side?

in america, what about blacks in jail and on drugs? what about blacks abandoning their families, who, if the children are lucky, have a relative to care for them? what about black neighborhoods, the streets, the apartments, the playgrounds? many of these places are congregating points for drug sellers and prostitutes.. what about the continuous allegations of oppression by blacks in the voting process and workplace?

bottom line, it seems jews have endured much more than blacks by any criteria used to determine cruelty or injustice, yet jews do few things blacks are accused of.. jews dont have playgrounds which are frequented by whores and junkies; jews dont abandon their families; mostly, they dont riot and complain about their lot in life.. they dont whine and cry about oppression, slavery, injustice, whatever.. they get together and work to improve their situation.. jews dont appear on television and demand reparations because they were held in bondage-- they form organizations to improve their lives and to move up in the world so they will hold positions of wealth, power and authority, to improve conditions for themselves and everyone else..

what about oppression? are blacks oppressed? are they denied access to those things enjoyed by others? many large cities in america have, or had, black mayors; colin powell was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the highest military position in the u.s. military, then was secy of state.. condoleezza was a member of the natl. security agency, now she is secy of state.. oprah winfrey is the richest, most influential woman in television.. bill cosby was the richest, most influential man on tv in the 80s.. today, barack obama is a serious contender for the u.s. presidency..

america is not a perfect place.. we have ideals and we have aspirations to be better than we are.. if the right people work to improve the current situation, things will improve.. but one thing for sure, crying and whining will get you nowhere.. loud voices are no match for hard work, whether physical or mental.. every town in america could name a street for martin luther king and it wouldnt make a bit of difference to the status of blacks in america.. every town in america could celebrate kwanzaa and it wouldnt advance the cause of blacks in america one inch.. if blacks want to be taken seriously as an ethnic force, they need to see some things clear.. one of the first things blacks need to do is to take responsibility for their own problems.. no living person has ever seen a slave in the u.s., so why dont you get over it? if you want wealth and comfort, work for it instead of demanding reparations.. everyone has a sad story to tell.. the irish, the italians, the germans, the russians, etc.. is your story of enslavement sadder than anyone else's? are you outraged over the slavery of blacks? jews were slaves for thousands of years in dozens of cultures.. they were murdered by the millions and everyone looked down their nose at them.. the nazis called them "rats and vermin" and made movies about it.. look at them now.. do they cry about oppression? do they scream about injustice? do they demand money for something that happened before they were born? if you want to know about slavery, injustice and other inhumane treatment against a group of people just for what they were, read books about jews.. they wrote the book about slavery and horrific treatment.. by comparison, blacks are newcomers and have a lot to learn about dealing with adversity and patience while they work for their opportunity to shine.. many blacks have done this, and they are with us today.. why dont you ask condoleezza, colin, oprah or bill cosby what they think about blacks wailing over their sad situation? will all the wailing and tears move you one inch away from your dilemma? i dont think so,

but, i could be wrong!



"Everyone has the right to be heard; noone has the right to be taken seriously."

Blacks were certainly not the first slaves.

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There were slaves before the time of Jesus. The Romans had slaves before they knew of or conquered North Africa. Danes kept slaves in the Viking era (900 AD), and very probably long before and long after.

Everyone knows this. What is your point?

Just because there were slaves before black slaves in America doesn't mean that it was "ok" or "not that bad." However, I do agree with you that black culture in America needs to move on from the oppression that their ancestors experienced during and after the birth of America. Black American culture started with slavery, but black culture in general has deep, proud roots in the many nations of Africa--and the more widely spread that realization is, the better for the black community in America.

But I disagree with your assertion that this "whining" and "tears" over slavery is the sole reason that blacks are not advancing in great numbers in this nation. There are many reasons for this. For instance, government social programs pay more for unemployment than minimum wage jobs, making it more profitable to not work then job-hunt; inner-city culture and opportunity are, again, more indicative to performing more profitable illegal activities rather than getting a job. The mind-set of many black youth has long been polluted by messages, like yours, that attest that all blacks are lazy whiners who don't have the capacity to work hard. This, coupled with the existing pressures of inner-city gang life--which is not unique to blacks, and pervades every race in America--offer a psychological trap for the poorly educated young black men and women in inner city settings.

The key, I think, is a big, maybe even total, reform of America's public education system. I'd like to see the public education system abolished, and replaced with a voucher system. Schools competing in the free market will only improve, under government standard regulations, and poor families will be able to send their kids to schools that are competing to attract them. Not to mention the economic advantage of allowing both government and private funding to pay for lower class students' tuitions.

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Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. – H.L. Mencken

I refuse to trade humanity for patriotism.

QUOTE: Everyone knows this. What is your point?

sorry that my point has eluded readers of this this post.. my point is, why have blacks been unable to integrate into american society as other groups have done? every culture, every society on earth has members who have been discriminated against.. asians, mexicans, american indians, jews, italians, irish, etc., have all suffered (and continue to suffer) at the hands of those who are greater in number or hold positions of powewr and/or influence over them, yet, they have not rioted; have not taken an atitude of confrontation at every opportunity, have not rebelled at the people who would assist them.. why are more blacks in prison? why are more black children in single-parent homes? why are more black children being raised by grandparents? why do blacks scream and shout at being denied civil liberties when others are denied the same liberties, yet are able to maintain a decorum of goodwill and civl treatment of everyone, including those of their own culture and those without.. im not saying blacks or anyone should do without the liberties that others enjoy, im just asking why must they be so violent and aggressive about it?

i asked these questions in my original post.. insteads of replying to my questions, you seem to want to focus on why i am asking the questions in the first place.. i asked why have blacks acted in a certain way, and you're asking me, "why ask why?"

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"Everyone has the right to be heard; noone has the right to be taken seriously."

QUOTE: ".. maybe even total, reform of America's public education system.."

i know im writing and posting i can see the words on the screen; is anyone readign them? i said in my original post that america is not perfect.. i said that yes, many are victimized by unjustified behavior by others.. stiull, why are blacks handling this differently? you disagree with my description of "whining and crying" why? have you encountered another minority group in america that behaves the same way? of course, we need better education, better housing, better everything-- that doesn't relate to my questions about blacks.. we are all experiencing the same pain, but we arent all as vocal about it.. most people have it tough, and many cultures have had it worse for thousands of years.. why arent they as outspoken as blacks? your comment at the top maybe a great solution, but you frame it as a response to a response to my questions about blacks.. why? why is a solution to a problem that should address everyone's deficincies in society being suggested as a tool to cope with black problems?

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"Everyone has the right to be heard; noone has the right to be taken seriously."

I disagree. Think about the Indian wars in the 1800s--Battle of the Little Bighorn, Massacre at Wounded Knee, etc. Think about the riots and gang wars on the urban east coast and the formation of the Know-Nothing Party. Think about the modern Aztlan movement by Mexican officials and leaders.

I think I addressed this--education and mindset. A mindset perpetuated by the belief that all blacks are whiny, lazy, jobless cretins.

Comparatively, I would say that blacks aren't as violent and aggressive in their pursuit of civil rights as they used to be. Remember the Black Panthers? They really aren't around anymore--not like they used to be, anyway. Sure, you have nutjobs like Rev. Wright yelling fire and brimstone sermons every Sunday, but that's a far cry from black-clad men marching the streets with AK-47s and jack boots.

The fact is, we really aren't. Almost 25% of blacks are below the poverty line, while only 10% of whites are. A quarter of the population. In the richest country in the world, that's astounding.

Short answer? Because it happened most recently. The Civil Rights movement was only 40 years ago; and some would say that, economically, not too much has changed. Yes, blacks below the poverty line has dropped from 35% in the 1980s to 20% in 1998-2001--but it is now on the rise, at 25%. (source) After the Civil Rights achievements of the 60s, economic improvements didn't immediately occur for blacks; in fact, it took another generation for the poverty level to dip below 30%--thus, the current generation of blacks inherited the feeling that the Civil Rights movement didn't help them gain an economic level playing field. The argument that blacks shouldn't lobby for rights because the Jews who built the pyramids as slaves for the Egyptians aren't speaking out is pretty ridiculous, too, btw.

I frame in terms of blacks because, well, that's what we're talking about. Education would benefit everyone--but mostly those in inner city America where schools are sub par and violent.

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Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. – H.L. Mencken

I refuse to trade humanity for patriotism.

I think the first slaves were women.


You know in the good ol' days.

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“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.

Oooh... I think you win...

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Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. – H.L. Mencken

I refuse to trade humanity for patriotism.

I think that it might be the Slavs. The word slave comes from slav after all

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