Banned
Commentator
Simple question
This is motivated by things I've observed in other areas of this forum and the fact that I come across a lot of self-proclaimed "anti-statists/tyrants" and "libertarians" who are also Christians and/or believe in (and enjoy the idea of) an entity FARRRR more powerful and with the capability of WAY more force than any possible government - God.
Why?
Last edited by IndridCold; Sep 03 2011 at 09:44 PM.
Guru
interesting questionOriginally Posted by IndridCold
... my suspicion is that these are people who feel that they have no control over their lives in general, and attribute the reason for this to an external force (the gubmint? liberal ideology? feminism? minorities? islamists? whatever ....) rather than take responsibility for the fact that they themselves are the major authors of the direction their own lives will take (which in general is true uness you experience some unforeseen trauma, such as an invasion by another country, or events such as 9/11 directly).
.. the belief in God kind of goes hand in hand with this.... all they have to do is say they love jaysus and the big sugar daddy in the sky will be there for them ... they don't really have to DO anything.
so God is kind of the benign (or perhaps more good, but not very active) power contrasting the evil gubmint etc ....
thats my theory anyway .....
"An era ends when its illusions can no longer be sustained" - Arthur Miller
Analyst
Your theory is a crock.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.....
Guru
Yes its interesting how modern conservatism has managed to entwine highly statist and anti-statist thought. On the one hand ultra-social domination and on the other economic "freedom" (which in reality is nothing different from the Dems overall). Really it comes down to history and the convergence of the two around the turn of the century. The traditional God fearing conservatives in the 19th century, of the US and Britain were ANTI-capitalism, and indeed there still are pockets of them, especially in Australia with a diminished agricultural industry.
Reality is God has very little, substantively, to do with conservative politics. As Cass succinctly and correctly points out above, God is just an ideological figurehead - another point of propaganda and social unification, as well as personal vindication and a means of creating the illusions necessary to overcome the hypocrisy in their political thoughts as well as the destruction that results from many conservative policies. Libertarians are quite different however - they very often are not religious for the obvious reason - they are consistent and principled. There are exceptions, but to them God is a personal matter, which is very different to the overt 'this is a Christian nation' bible bashers that, as I say, use religion as another tool in their rhetorical repertoire within debate and discussion of their politics.
As the Op correctly notes, there are however many conservatives who like to think themselves libertarians, however their insistence on imposing moral values on others is evidence as to their hypocrisy.
Last edited by MegadethFan; Sep 04 2011 at 12:13 AM.
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I'm willing to change my position at any time on any issue. I have done so in the past. All you need is a logical, provable case, and I'm all in. The question is, have you got what it takes?
Oh, and just so you're not confused, I'm an apatheist libertarian.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." --Noam Chomsky
Guru
why do you think so?Your theory is a crock.
I base it on what I know of human behaviour, and it is true that people who don't have the skills to take control of their own lives blame others for their problems, or look to some external agent to "fix" things for them and make everything OK.
this is well known.
if you disagree, you should give a reason.
"An era ends when its illusions can no longer be sustained" - Arthur Miller
Guru
Such as Atheists who feel the need to blame religion and/or Christianity for all the problems that they encounter.
"THOUGHT. The operation of the mind. No one can be punished for his mere thoughts however wicked they may be. Human laws cannot reach them, first, because they are unknown; and, secondly, unless made manifest by some action, they are not injurious to any one; but when they manifest themselves, then the act, which is the consequence, may be punished. Dig. 50 16, 225."
Guru
Indeed, that is quite true.
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I'm willing to change my position at any time on any issue. I have done so in the past. All you need is a logical, provable case, and I'm all in. The question is, have you got what it takes?
Oh, and just so you're not confused, I'm an apatheist libertarian.
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." --Noam Chomsky
Analyst
No, you base it on what you think you know about human behavior, as viewed through biased, ideologically clouded eyes.
While you may have a point to your above statement, to attribute it to spiritual people is biased, bigoted, and just plain silly.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.....
I'm not sure of the nuances of your question, but the answer to why I believe in an entity greater than myself has something to do with humility.
Guru
no, its true.
a tendency to ascribe blame/power to others is generally indicative of feeling one doesn't have control over one's life. This is well known.
I don't believe that ALL christians are like this by any means, there are plenty who don't fit this stereotype - but most of the conservative christians I see here do fit this bill.
"An era ends when its illusions can no longer be sustained" - Arthur Miller
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