Thread: Evolution is a joke Pt. VIII

Be advised... I have started threads with just continue and they have been closed. I will attempt my best to address the “new” thread as best as possible to continue the discussion and then answer questions from the previous thread.

Wish me luck!

In this eighth edition to Evolution is a joke. We will continue to discuss the fact that evolution is more of a religion than science. That is why it, this discussion, is presented in the Religious forum. Based on nothing more than facts, not what others say, using websites/links, and biology itself the basis of evolution is nothing more than a hypothesis. What has happened though is that a group of individuals has taken science and used it as a tool against religion. When doing this, they have become more violent and unjustified than religious nuts that have never picked up a Bible. Discussing evolution “with some people” turn violent and they lash out in hatred when asked about their religion.

If you believe in something – know about it. Understand it… It is “faith” alone that evolution stands on. And with that, I will be more than happy to discuss evolution, the hypothesis, with anyone who has “faith” that it is actual science, which it is not.

God Bless Evolution! (okay… that was funny!)

[quote]What has existed through time? By the way I'm familiar with the Atlas of Creation by Harun Yahya (So try something else ). Also note that some life is more stable then other life because of evolutionary pressure that either exist or don't. [quote]
That is a false truth… pressures do not create mutations… mutations happen. See, this is where I get kinda frustrated, and if I come off a little abrasive, I apologize ahead of time! It’s not you, and I can’t express that enough!

The problem with this false truth is the pressure, it’s like saying that God is in control. But, of course you don’t believe that! What should happen is that a mutation happens, and it happens in all life all the time mind you – thus no life is immune to change, and that life breeds. After breeding that mutation gets passed on to other like kinds of its species. Over a course of generations, mutations are abundant within the species. Example is 1 out of 100,000 lifeforms within the species has a beneficial mutation and they breed. Now, we have however long (1,000,000 years divided by how often they replicate or breed) for these mutations to settle.

And I will say (this is not directed toward you but the readers) THERE IS NOT A SELECTION, NOT A PRESSURE, OR ANYTHING that determines what mutates or what does not. Ever… It is a lie and a falsehood that has been passed on for decades.

Is there something that dictates what happens during cell division? Nope… Is there something that determines what stays and what doesn’t? Nope. If you think that there is a pressure or selection – you think there is a God controlling stuff! Plain and simple. Amino Acids do not have brains… All the things that make up chromo’s do not have brains (all the RNA’s and DNA)…. They do not care what is good or bad… The ecosystem that they are in does not care what is good or bad. If a monkey was born with another arm coming out of his ear, he’d still have babies, because the fruit it eats and the trees it lives on could care less what the hell it had coming out of it’s ear.

Okay… I’ve calmed down… Sorry… but that is just something I really have a problem with. It’s like biologist throw God in there without calling it God… No wonder there are Creationist debating this! Nothing and I will repeat this forever… nothing in nature is fixed… NOTHING!!

Again, this was not directed at you!! Please do not take it that way!

i. I dont

ii. yes but it doesn't always matter. Most people aquire cancer if they live long enough. But if one can live long enough to reproduce aquiring cancer later does not negativly affect the genes. (There are minor exceptions to this like living long enough to reproduce AND care for the offspring but you get the idea).
Really? dismiss this observation as random?

Good and cancer is a mutation and cannot be carried to offspring.

You said "it's placed how it should". Why should it? why does it make perfect sense? Evolution has it's opinion, but whats is yours?

That’s the point… it should, it shouldn’t… it shouldn’t matter because we have no clue what’s going on within the brain. Until we do, we cannot just “predict” what’s going on. Like that whole fossil thing and missing links along with transitional fossils…

So we have agree that there are at least "some" things we know about nerves (Severing the spine i.e.). So then, the nerve that goes all the way down the neck of a giraffe and back up to the head... is for what? Whats the point? How can we explain something like this without evolution? Like Dawkinis or not, does he not have a point?

By not explaining it at all… We have no clue the purpose of the giraffe’s nerve – we can’t tap into it to see what it is used for. We only see it and “guess” what it does and some idiot named Dawkin’s told a bunch of people that it was evolution…

Some of them believed him – I didn’t… not without testing it because I am in the field of study. Because in this field, a lot of people say a lot of stupid things….

BTW, I do read the opposing side (I'm curretly reading "Icons of evolution"). And I read "A case for the a creator" last year. I just don't find their arguments convincing is all.

I would never read someone’s opinion about anything… just me though. But, I do respect the knowledge it brings! It’s always good to know more!!! Regardless… I could NEVER read a book on Creationism. I find that retarded. It has no place in science (biology) and should just be satisfied with what it is – a “Faith”….

No, nerves "broadcast" when enough neurotransmitters are received to cause an action potential. The action potential is a change in the chemical balance of the neuron that causes an electrochemical signal to be transmitted down the length of the nerve, resulting in the release of more biochemicals at the other end.

The speed is variable and is dependent on length and peripheral (e.g Schwann) cells

Yes to both in some cases. I can't recall specific examples right now without looking them up, but I'll be happy to GTFY if you need me to.

Which nervous system? Ours? Yes, I seem to recall reading that it is very similar to that of other primates (with the exception of the brain, of course).

I don’t know what GTFY is… I’m an old man and not suave in the art of acronyms unless they are from the Marines or Gov’t…

Interesting indeed… I have to look into this because I’m not very inept with our nervous system… I’ll look into this tonight!

First, you said we have no clue. Now you say we don't know that much. The reality is that we know a whole lot more than you think.

I greatly appreciate this impressive demonstration of your lack of biology knowledge. I learned about nerves 12 years ago in high school advanced bio, and it wasn't ground-breaking new info at that time. Thank you for providing this awesome exchange that can be referenced every time you claim to know anything about biology.

Again with a smart ass post… Uhhh…. Is it you really want to be a member of the Peanut Gallery? Is that what your shooting for? Also, I seriously doubt you remember about the nervous system in detail from 12 years ago! Well, unless your still in high school trying to complete your diploma… and I seriously doubt also you had a working knowledge of the nervous system before that like Sesame Street broke down neurons and electricity in the brain for you so when you got to high school it was like watching The Count rattle off about the cerebral cortex…

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

I don’t know what GTFY is… I’m an old man and not suave in the art of acronyms unless they are from the Marines or Gov’t…

Interesting indeed… I have to look into this because I’m not very inept with our nervous system… I’ll look into this tonight!

GTFY is "google that for you." I was in a hurry and the acronym just came out. Try googling some of your questions and you'll find a lot of info.

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

Again with a smart ass post… Uhhh…. Is it you really want to be a member of the Peanut Gallery? Is that what your shooting for?

I'm sorry. Really, sincerely, sorry. I don't like people doing that to me, and I shouldn't have done it to you. Here comes the excuse that diminishes my apology: after having you claim multiple times that you know so much about biology and I know nothing, I couldn't resist. On a related note, I find it odd that you're suddenly concerned about that kind of smartass response but didn't care when we were trading similar comments back and forth. Do you not have a similar comeback this time, so now you're offended?

The answers to your questions really are the kinds of things that a biologist knows and doesn't forget. And asking those kinds of questions expecting that they will show we know nothing about nerves simply runs counter to common sense. The answers to questions about how nerves "broadcast" are critical to neurology. We wouldn't have consistent, competent brain surgery if we knew nothing about nerves.

So, are you ready to rescind your statement that we know nothing about nerves?

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

Also, I seriously doubt you remember about the nervous system in detail from 12 years ago! Well, unless your still in high school trying to complete your diploma… and I seriously doubt also you had a working knowledge of the nervous system before that like Sesame Street broke down neurons and electricity in the brain for you so when you got to high school it was like watching The Count rattle off about the cerebral cortex…

I remember almost everything from advanced bio, mainly because it was further reviewed and built upon when I was getting my molecular bio degree. I can remember the way the nerve cell diagrams looked projected on the board, and the colors and positions of the ions in each state. 12 years is not a long time to remember stuff like this, especially when that same info gets exercised for another 4 1/2 of those 12 years.

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

dcaddy:
What has existed through time? By the way I'm familiar with the Atlas of Creation by Harun Yahya (So try something else ). Also note that some life is more stable then other life because of evolutionary pressure that either exist or don't.

That is a false truth… pressures do not create mutations… mutations happen. See, this is where I get kinda frustrated, and if I come off a little abrasive, I apologize ahead of time! It’s not you, and I can’t express that enough!

THERE IS NOT A SELECTION, NOT A PRESSURE, OR ANYTHING that determines what mutates or what does not. Ever… It is a lie and a falsehood that has been passed on for decades.

You seem to more or less grasp the idea of random mutation but not make the connection to natural selection. So here is an example of a pressure.
Loins eat antelope, the slowest antelope is most likely to be eaten and therefore least likely to pass it slow genes. This situation is probably near an equilibrium at this point (where gaining speed makes other aspects suffer more then the speed gained) but at one point there must have been a strong pressure as in the next example: The black death arrived to man in the 14th century, in the beginning it devastated the human population. Many people died and may not have passed along their genes that were susceptible to the disease. Over time, the "pressure" (or whatever you want to call it) "selected" (or favored or whatever you want to call it) those who could better survive the situation. Today, the black death is still around, evolved some, as have we, and we are now in a kind of equilibrium mentioned in the first example. Continuing, I'd have to imagine that there was a strong "pressure" applied to the first birds inhabiting the south pole. Probably not so well equipped to handle the cold, the ones who could not retain heat, or find food in the water would likely die. The pressure to evolve better ways to retain heat, and trade those useless wings for flippers created what we call a penguin. No "planning" by the genes required, any combination of genes is a valid choice but only the ones that create a successful life cycle are able to exist.

It requires no "faith" to understand these rather simple explanations.

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

Good and cancer is a mutation and cannot be carried to offspring.

Cancer can be developed in many ways but it also runs in families. So, yes it can. But cancer isn't the point, it's one example of many lethal traits that can be passed to offspring. A gene that causes full blown ALS in a newborn doesn't have much chance to be prevalent, the gene that causes it when your 50 is possible since it's after the age of reproduction.

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

Be advised... I have started threads with just continue and they have been closed. I will attempt my best to address the “new” thread as best as possible to continue the discussion and then answer questions from the previous thread.

Wish me luck!

In this eighth edition to Evolution is a joke. We will continue to discuss the fact that evolution is more of a religion than science. That is why it, this discussion, is presented in the Religious forum. Based on nothing more than facts, not what others say, using websites/links, and biology itself the basis of evolution is nothing more than a hypothesis. What has happened though is that a group of individuals has taken science and used it as a tool against religion. When doing this, they have become more violent and unjustified than religious nuts that have never picked up a Bible. Discussing evolution “with some people” turn violent and they lash out in hatred when asked about their religion.

If you believe in something – know about it. Understand it… It is “faith” alone that evolution stands on. And with that, I will be more than happy to discuss evolution, the hypothesis, with anyone who has “faith” that it is actual science, which it is not.

God Bless Evolution! (okay… that was funny!)

To argue against evolution, even as a die hard Christian, is stupid. It is all BUT explicitly proven. In fact, even as a Christian, I would admit there is mroe "concrete" evidence supporting evolution than there is an existence of a God. The Bible does not once say we cannot be okay with scientific advances.

Originally Posted by Burzmali

GTFY is "google that for you." I was in a hurry and the acronym just came out. Try googling some of your questions and you'll find a lot of info.

I'm sorry. Really, sincerely, sorry. I don't like people doing that to me, and I shouldn't have done it to you. Here comes the excuse that diminishes my apology: after having you claim multiple times that you know so much about biology and I know nothing, I couldn't resist. On a related note, I find it odd that you're suddenly concerned about that kind of smartass response but didn't care when we were trading similar comments back and forth. Do you not have a similar comeback this time, so now you're offended?

I’m just tired of it… I only do it when someone starts it first. I will never be the first offender and never have been…

The answers to your questions really are the kinds of things that a biologist knows and doesn't forget. And asking those kinds of questions expecting that they will show we know nothing about nerves simply runs counter to common sense. The answers to questions about how nerves "broadcast" are critical to neurology. We wouldn't have consistent, competent brain surgery if we knew nothing about nerves.

I know the basic biology of nerves. Dealing with “what” and how they do the things they do is incredible. The nervous system is the most complex thing we have run into in our known universe. How is it getting burned hurts less than getting kicked in the nads? How do they “know” sensitivity?

So, are you ready to rescind your statement that we know nothing about nerves?

I already stated I don’t know much as well as saying basic knowledge…

I remember almost everything from advanced bio, mainly because it was further reviewed and built upon when I was getting my molecular bio degree. I can remember the way the nerve cell diagrams looked projected on the board, and the colors and positions of the ions in each state. 12 years is not a long time to remember stuff like this, especially when that same info gets exercised for another 4 1/2 of those 12 years.

I would agree… thus putting you at about 7… Now do you work in the field of neurology? Makes a big difference…

Me on the other hand – you may have to do some multiplication! Take your years of 7 and multiply that by 3.5… Now, where I work and what gets brought back to me is when I deal with Geologist and Archeologist… I don’t do human body… more of animal and ecosystems on Gov’t land….

Originally Posted by DBM aka FDS

I’m just tired of it… I only do it when someone starts it first. I will never be the first offender and never have been…



I know the basic biology of nerves. Dealing with “what” and how they do the things they do is incredible. The nervous system is the most complex thing we have run into in our known universe. How is it getting burned hurts less than getting kicked in the nads? How do they “know” sensitivity?


I already stated I don’t know much as well as saying basic knowledge…



I would agree… thus putting you at about 7… Now do you work in the field of neurology? Makes a big difference…

Me on the other hand – you may have to do some multiplication! Take your years of 7 and multiply that by 3.5… Now, where I work and what gets brought back to me is when I deal with Geologist and Archeologist… I don’t do human body… more of animal and ecosystems on Gov’t land….

You mean the non existant interior government agency?

I post the list in the previous thread and your department wasn't in it...

Originally Posted by dcaddy

You seem to more or less grasp the idea of random mutation but not make the connection to natural selection. So here is an example of a pressure.
Loins eat antelope, the slowest antelope is most likely to be eaten and therefore least likely to pass it slow genes.

This is incorrect. Usually it is children or the old that get eaten by predators… And the ones that mate are the strongest out of the herds.

Or it just dumb luck of an animal getting injured by twisting a leg during a mating ritual or getting hurt during something else… The slowest thing is not how it happens – ever… The hyenas don’t look out across the plain and go, “That one over there – he looks slow…” No, they rally up – put them on the run, and when one messes up and takes a right instead of a left the pack closes in, but usually target infants, but dumb luck gives them a prize every now and then. The hyena is my favorite animal on this world! Studied it a lot!

When hyena’s attack lions, do you think they pick out the slowest or weakest? No they pick out whatever is there because the pack is hungry and they really don’t care… Same with the wild dogs… and basically everything on this planet. Seals don’t select the slowest penguins – or the dumbest… they get what they can when they can get it…

I think you are going to need another example of pressure, because that one doesn’t work too well…

This situation is probably near an equilibrium at this point (where gaining speed makes other aspects suffer more then the speed gained) but at one point there must have been a strong pressure as in the next example: The black death arrived to man in the 14th century, in the beginning it devastated the human population. Many people died and may not have passed along their genes that were susceptible to the disease. Over time, the "pressure" (or whatever you want to call it) "selected" (or favored or whatever you want to call it) those who could better survive the situation. Today, the black death is still around, evolved some, as have we, and we are now in a kind of equilibrium mentioned in the first example. Continuing, I'd have to imagine that there was a strong "pressure" applied to the first birds inhabiting the south pole. Probably not so well equipped to handle the cold, the ones who could not retain heat, or find food in the water would likely die. The pressure to evolve better ways to retain heat, and trade those useless wings for flippers created what we call a penguin. No "planning" by the genes required, any combination of genes is a valid choice but only the ones that create a successful life cycle are able to exist.

That explanation is adaptation…

It requires no "faith" to understand these rather simple explanations.

I understand them, I just don’t think they give examples of complexity which evolution is, dealing with common ancestry…