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Thread: Islam is hopeless part II

  1. Default Islam is hopeless part II

    Sura 9:3: “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
    No point in making treaties with infidels, Muslims can break treaties anytime.

    Sura 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    Show no mercy, the only treaty is for Christians and Jews to convert.

    Sura 9:13 Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first ? What! Fear ye them ? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers
    Mohammed is getting desperate because at this point several Muslim generals are starting to question Mohammed's sanity, especially his instructions to wage violent aggressive wars against the Christian and Jewish tribes who have not done them any wrong and for misleading them to believe that the Byzantine have gather an army at Tabuk, no such army and no threat was present.

    Sura 9.73 “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.”
    Mohammed is now mad and has invoke Allah instructing Muslims to kill fellow Muslims who refuse to follow his orders.


    Sura 9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
    Another battle cry verse encouraging Muslims to be brutal against enemies of Islam.

    http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or...ation-in-islam
    The Qur'an is unique among sacred scriptures in accepting a doctrine of abrogation in which later pronouncements of the Prophet declare null and void his earlier pronouncements.[9] Four verses in the Qu'ran acknowledge or justify abrogation:

    When we cancel a message, or throw it into oblivion, we replace it with one better or one similar. Do you not know that God has power over all things?[10]
    When we replace a message with another, and God knows best what he reveals, they say: You have made it up. Yet, most of them do not know.[11]
    God abrogates or confirms whatsoever he will, for he has with him the Book of the Books.[12]
    If we pleased, we could take away what we have revealed to you. Then you will not find anyone to plead for it with us.[13]
    Rather than explain away inconsistencies in passages regulating the Muslim community, many jurists acknowledge the differences but accept that latter verses trump earlier verses.[14] Most scholars divide the Qur'an into verses revealed by Muhammad in Mecca when his community of followers was weak and more inclined to compromise, and those revealed in Medina, where Muhammad's strength grew.
    The issue of abrogation in Islam is critical to understanding both jihad and da'wa, the propagation of Islam. Some Muslims may preach tolerance and argue that jihad refers only to an internal, peaceful struggle to better oneself. Western commentators can convince themselves that such teachings are correct. However, for learned Muslim scholars and populist leaders, such notions are or should be risible. They recognize that, in practice, there is compulsion in Islam. They take seriously the notion that the Qur'an teaches not just tolerance among religions, but tolerance among religions on the terms of Islam. To understand the challenge of the current Islamist revival, it is crucial for non-Muslims and moderate Muslims alike to recognize that interpretation of Islamic doctrine can have two faces, and that the Medinan face may very well continue to overshadow the Meccan face for a major portion, if not the majority, of contemporary Muslims.
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.


  2. Default

    No point in making treaties with infidels, Muslims can break treaties anytime.

    you are just proving your ignorance of history.

    Show no mercy, the only treaty is for Christians and Jews to convert.

    otherwise get slained? read history.

    Mohammed is getting desperate because at this point several Muslim generals are starting to question Mohammed's sanity, especially his instructions to wage violent aggressive wars against the Christian and Jewish tribes who have not done them any wrong and for misleading them to believe that the Byzantine have gather an army at Tabuk, no such army and no threat was present.

    not really, those are your own opinions.
    that's the problem with western secular cultures...
    they teach people they can think anything they wan to without
    basing it to actual knowledge.

    read history.


    Mohammed is now mad and has invoke Allah instructing Muslims to kill fellow Muslims who refuse to follow his orders.

    again, your opinions.
    those words are the reflection of your hatred.

    read history.



    Another battle cry verse encouraging Muslims to be brutal against enemies of Islam.

    we won't sit down and wait while they are slaughtering us.
    you will forget about that...
    we will defend ourselves, and it was explained what to do
    and what not to do.

    read history.

    reds above.
    & watch less tv, calm your bias down...
    Last edited by Mehmet; Jan 03 2012 at 09:32 PM.
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    the need to be right,
    is the sign of a vulgar mind.
    ~ albert camus

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    astaghfirullah, Allahu a'lam.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehmet View Post
    reds above.
    & watch less tv, calm your bias down...
    Stay away from radical Islam and follow the true Islam then you will be save.

    Why do you want me to watch less TV don't you want me to learn about Islam and Muslims? Are you afraid of the truth.

    I watch Zakir Naik, Shabir Ally, Anjem Choudary, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, Fr. Boutros etc. etc. Should I stay awau from them too? And so far only Muslim apologetics Dr. Zuhdi Jasser speaks truthfully and he and his followers are the real Muslims. You should try listen to Dr. Jesser you'll love him unless you are one of those radicals.

    Muslims have failed to do a full textual research on their Quran for centuries because they are not allow to do that they are not even allow to question Mohammed less they be punish severely that may include death. So now that the Quran is being analyse because we want to find out why Muslims hate us, why they are so bias, why they kept on bombing churches and mosque, why they took down the Twin Towers and why they kept claiming Islam is a religion of peace and the true religion of Allah with all their killings and wars?? Slowly we are understanding, the problem are not Muslims it is Islam.
    Last edited by WanRen; Jan 03 2012 at 09:58 PM.
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Stay away from radical Islam and follow the true Islam then you will be save.
    what is true islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Why do you want me to watch less TV don't you want me to learn about Islam and Muslims? Are you afraid of the truth.
    i want people to read and have their own opinion.
    not what media dictates. we've had enough of that.

    we've had enough of security pulling someone over at airport
    just because his name is "muhammed".

    we've had enough of people attacking islam because
    they don't know anything about it and they are affraid.

    we've had enough of media picking the worst cases of muslims
    and telling "here! this is true islam!".

    they are the worst cases of humanity, not just as muslims.
    and the majority of the muslims condemn their behaviour...

    pick up the qur'an and read
    if you will state your opinion about it.

    that's all we ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    I watch Zakir Naik, Shabir Ally, Anjem Choudary, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, Fr. Boutros etc. etc. Should I stay awau from them too? And so far only Muslim apologetics Dr. Zuhdi Jasser speaks truthfully and he and his followers are the real Muslims. You should try listen to Dr. Jesser you'll love him unless you are one of those radicals.
    only Allah knows who a real muslim is.
    i hope they are valuable, as you said.

    i don't know who is who and what agenda
    they have anymore... so i can't vouch for anyone.

    on the other hand;
    i don't know many of the names you mentioned.
    i watched some debates of shabir ally...
    but personally i don't like debates,
    most of them are pointless.

    instead we need more informative dialogues and understanding.
    Last edited by Mehmet; Jan 03 2012 at 10:14 PM.
    __________________
    __________________


    the need to be right,
    is the sign of a vulgar mind.
    ~ albert camus

    __________________

    astaghfirullah, Allahu a'lam.

  5. Default

    Islam is like the Old Testament.

    No love, no, compassion, and riddled with brutality.
    Just because I find your religion silly does not mean I am an atheist.
    Save us both the time and refrain from clicking Reply if you are going to address me as a such.

    There is no love in Fear.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    Islam is like the Old Testament.

    No love, no, compassion, and riddled with brutality.
    the qur'an will give you what you are looking for.


    Ar-Rahman
    the exceedingly compassionate,
    the exceedingly beneficent,
    the exceedingly gracious
    beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous
    other places. name frequently used in surah 55, Ar-Rahman.


    Ar-Rahim
    the exceedingly merciful
    beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous other places

    >> click



    * "except one"?
    it is the surah tauba. if you read the surah itself, you will see it deals
    with God’s wrath on the polytheists and the breaker of covenant who
    were attempting to extinguish the light of islam. jibreel descended with
    these ayat along with the wrath of God on these disbelievers and
    hypocrites, so there is no "bismillah", because this sentence is a sign of
    mercy and peace and God did not intend to send such a message of
    mercy and peace to the enemies of islam, but rather a dire warning.
    __________________
    __________________


    the need to be right,
    is the sign of a vulgar mind.
    ~ albert camus

    __________________

    astaghfirullah, Allahu a'lam.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehmet View Post
    the qur'an will give you what you are looking for.


    Ar-Rahman
    the exceedingly compassionate,
    the exceedingly beneficent,
    the exceedingly gracious
    beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous
    other places. name frequently used in surah 55, Ar-Rahman.


    Ar-Rahim
    the exceedingly merciful
    beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous other places

    >> click



    * "except one"?
    it is the surah tauba. if you read the surah itself, you will see it deals
    with God’s wrath on the polytheists and the breaker of covenant who
    were attempting to extinguish the light of islam. jibreel descended with
    these ayat along with the wrath of God on these disbelievers and
    hypocrites, so there is no "bismillah", because this sentence is a sign of
    mercy and peace and God did not intend to send such a message of
    mercy and peace to the enemies of islam, but rather a dire warning.
    Those verses sound really nice very Christian like, that is what real Muslims are supposed to be unfortunately because of the abrogation rule that exist in Ismalic hierarchy , they use that rule to settle any conflict of verses were abrogated by Sura 9, this Sura 9 is what the radicals including most Muslim apologetics have been following because Sura 9 is consider the last will and testament of Mohammed. Sura 9 contains many aggressive and violent verses that targets none Muslims and apostates totally the opposite of earlier verses that teaches freedom of religion, compassion, equality and freedom.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P35E31THd8"]Zuhdi Jasser - Oslo Freedom Forum 2010 - YouTube[/ame]

    He is not welcome to preach and or speak in Muslim lands.
    Last edited by WanRen; Jan 04 2012 at 04:51 PM.
    Abraham Lincoln: In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Those verses sound really nice very Christian like,
    those are not verses.
    read the qur'an.

    i say read the qur'an but
    you haven't even read the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    that is what real Muslims are supposed to be unfortunately because of the abrogation rule that exist in Ismalic hierarchy , they use that rule to settle any conflict of verses were abrogated by Sura 9, this Sura 9 is what the radicals including most Muslim apologetics have been following because Sura 9 is consider the last will and testament of Mohammed. Sura 9 contains many aggressive and violent verses that targets none Muslims and apostates totally the opposite of earlier verses that teaches freedom of religion, compassion, equality and freedom.
    internet has been the new refuge of the ignorant.
    just because the information is down there and accesible,
    doesn't mean that the specific info you gathered is the truth.

    it makes you feel good yes... like you know some stuff.
    but actually you don't.

    i still have a hard time to understand people stating their
    opinion about a book that they haven't read.

    how do you do that?
    i mean how???
    do you claim to be a doctor and go in the operations without
    having a diploma and practice?
    - "a tale of two cities", did you like it?
    - no.
    - why?
    - because i seen it on tv, it wasn't good, they've said.
    - have you read it yourself?
    - no.
    - how do you know then?
    - they showed a guy who likes charles dickes, the writer
    you know, and i didin't like the guy who liked him... and i've
    also read bits and pieces of it; i didn't get it all. but there
    was this other guy who explained them all for me.
    - are you gonna read the book?
    - no, i will criticize it.
    - how?
    - i will pick videos from youtube and post it on forums!
    indeed. ignorance is bliss.
    it will last until you see the truth.
    so you might as well enjoy it while it lasts.
    Last edited by Mehmet; Jan 04 2012 at 09:47 PM.
    __________________
    __________________


    the need to be right,
    is the sign of a vulgar mind.
    ~ albert camus

    __________________

    astaghfirullah, Allahu a'lam.

  9. #9

    Default

    Islam is not a religion. It is a political cult. It is not peaceful and does not believe in individual rights, therefore it cannot co-exist with democratic society.
    “I’ve noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.” -- Ronald Reagan
    We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. -- Ann Coulter
    "I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don't want to impose my moral values on others." -- Ann Coulter on Fox News 6/22/09
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. Boondock Saints

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
    Islam is not a religion. It is a political cult. It is not peaceful and does not believe in individual rights, therefore it cannot co-exist with democratic society.
    sure.

    1. show me an unbiased ressource that proves that.
    2. elaborate on one single surah that you have read from the qur'an
    by quoting the qur'an.
    yes, this means google time for you.
    __________________
    __________________


    the need to be right,
    is the sign of a vulgar mind.
    ~ albert camus

    __________________

    astaghfirullah, Allahu a'lam.

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