Thread: What lies beyond the boundary of the infinite universe

Originally Posted by BFSmith@764

God is spirit and energy is not. God created energy and energy is physical because it exist in the physical world. Meaning it can be seen, tested in a lab, used for fuel and so on……you can’t do that with spirit.

That is what exactly i am saying. God is not energy. God can be called as Holy spirit. Infact God is unimaginable. But such God comes in human form so that we can see Him, touch Him and co-live with Him and clarify all our spiritual doubts from Him. He called Human incarnation. God is impartial and comes down in human form in every human generation. That is the point here.

Originally Posted by stig42

maybe existence is not a creation

Existence is a created item. Your soul is a created item by God...

Originally Posted by dattaswami

That is what exactly i am saying. God is not energy. God can be called as Holy spirit. Infact God is unimaginable. But such God comes in human form so that we can see Him, touch Him and co-live with Him and clarify all our spiritual doubts from Him. He called Human incarnation. God is impartial and comes down in human form in every human generation. That is the point here.

god is imaginable you keep giving it traits and saying it performs certain actions why does the universe need a creator gain? And why does it have to be a being with a personality and not just some chain of natural causes and effect

Originally Posted by dattaswami

Existence is a created item. Your soul is a created item by God...

how do you know existence is created or that i have a soul

Originally Posted by dattaswami

That is what exactly i am saying. God is not energy. God can be called as Holy spirit. Infact God is unimaginable. But such God comes in human form so that we can see Him, touch Him and co-live with Him and clarify all our spiritual doubts from Him. He called Human incarnation. God is impartial and comes down in human form in every human generation. That is the point here.

No, God did not come in human form so that we could see Him. He, the Word, came in human form because He is our brother and He was predestined to become like us, and take back from Satan what Adam save to him, to be the second Adam, to rule as king of kings over all things, to save us from our sins and to put us a kings over all things under God's government.

Hebrews 2:17 (ASV)
17 Wherefore it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Pilate asked Jesus if He was a king and Jesus said yes that's why He was born and came into the world.

John 18:37 (BBE)
37 Then Pilate said to him, Are you then a king? Jesus made answer, You say that I am a king. For this purpose was I given birth, and for this purpose I came into the world, that I might give witness to what is true. Every lover of what is true gives ear to my voice.

Daniel 7:14 (ASV)
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


Jesus is the second Adam.....He did what the first Adam failed to do. The first Adam was suppose to resist Satan and showed him that he was above Satan and it was Satan that should bow before him......Jesus gave a command to Satan and he has to obey.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (ASV)
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Matthew 16:23 (ASV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.


Jesus came to show us who we really are.........what God meant for us to be......we are children of God because we came from Him. The breath of life that He blew into Adam came from God. Mankind is was like the son of a great king that is unable to remember who he is, and thinking that he is a servant the king. Jesus came to undo all of that.

Originally Posted by stig42

god is imaginable you keep giving it traits and saying it performs certain actions why does the universe need a creator gain? And why does it have to be a being with a personality and not just some chain of natural causes and effect

Again, God's personality cannot be definited. When God is unimaginable how can you difine Him!!The entire creation is constituted by the spatial co-ordinates. Hence, beyond creation means beyond space and this means finally beyond spatial co-ordinates. The intelligence can never cross the spatial co-ordinates and hence can never touch the boundary of this creation from which God starts.

The soul, mind, intelligence, ideas and imagination are made of nervous energy only, which is a special work form of inert energy. The human body is made of inert energy and matter. Matter is a form of inert energy. Even the space is a form of very subtle inert energy only. All this creation including the human beings is basically inert energy only. The soul is a part of this creation and therefore the creation is as true as the soul. All this creation including the souls is relative reality and God alone is the absolute reality. From the point of God, the creation is not real.

But from the point of the soul the creation is equally real. Since God is the absolute reality and soul is the relative reality, neither God is soul nor soul is God. If you say that the creation is real, it contradicts the view of God. If you say that creation is unreal, it contradicts the view of the soul. It is just like the issue of Telangana in Andhra Pradesh. If you support United State, people in Telangana oppose. If you support separate Telangana, people in the other part of the state oppose. Hence, Shankakra told that creation is neither real nor unreal and is Mithya. When a human being becomes God, the creation becomes unreal for that specific human incarnation. Here also, neither God becomes the soul and human body nor the soul and human body become God. Just like a metallic wire can be treated as current on charging with electricity, the human being charged by God is treated as God and hence we say that the human being becomes God.

Originally Posted by stig42

how do you know existence is created or that i have a soul

For that you must first know what is soul...First of all we should analyse the soul. The soul is made of pure awareness. The vibrations of pure awareness are called as feelings or qualities. Therefore all the characteristic qualities are associated with the soul and are made of pure awareness.

What is pure awareness? It is only a special form of inert energy. When we eat the food, it is oxidised by the oxygen received through the respiratory system. When the food is assimilated in the digestive system, it is oxidised by the Oxygen from the respiratory system, which is carried by the blood in dissolved state through Haemoglobin. The oxidation of food is exothermic reaction and liberates inert heat energy. This inert heat energy is converted into a special form of energy called awareness by the nervous system.

The electricity is produced by the generator and enters the tube light. The electrical energy is converted into light, which is another new form of energy. The heat energy produced by the interaction of digestive and respiratory system is called life energy (Pranamaya kosa). When this heat energy is converted into awareness by nervous system the awareness or mind is produced (Manomaya kosa). This awareness which is in the purest state is called as the soul (or Atman). This awareness is propagated in the form of pulses and these pulses as a bundle is called as Jeeva. The bundle of pulses of awareness is called as simply Jeeva from the point of pulses, is called as Atman from the point of awareness and is also called as Jeevatman from the point of both the pulses and awareness.

The constant propagation of pulses is called as mind (manas). The impressions of strong pulses are called as Chittam. The production of strong of pulses by the interaction of several weak pulses is called as intelligence or determination or Buddhi. The strong pulse that keeps the identity of the body is called as Ahamkara or ego. When you say the word Jeeva, it refers only to Manas, Chittam, Buddhi and Ahamkara (Antahkaranams). Therefore the soul and Jeeva together called as Jeevatma is only a special form of energy i.e., generated by the interaction of digestive, respiratory and nervous systems. Thus Jeeva representing the bundle of characteristics and Atman representing the special form of energy or Soul can be only the items of creation and not the creator. You are worried about the generation of Soul but there need not be any worry because Soul is an item of creation. In this creation there is conversion of matter into energy.

There is conversion of one type of matter into another type of matter through a chemical reaction as done by chemists. There is also conversion of one form of energy into another form of energy as done by physicists. There is conversion of matter into energy as done by technologists and engineers. Now if the Soul is generated, what is there to worry? This topic comes under the realm of creation and is within the boundaries of the creation. Gita says that the Soul is Paraprakruti. Prakruti means creation. Para means the finest part of creation. Therefore the transformation of Soul or division of Soul or generation of Soul is only topic of science and is not a topic of spirituality. Spirituality deals with creator who is beyond the creation. Veda says ‘Annat Purushah’, which means that the Soul is produced from the food. It is conversion of matter into Soul, which is energy.

Originally Posted by dattaswami

Again, God's personality cannot be definited. When God is unimaginable how can you difine Him!!The entire creation is constituted by the spatial co-ordinates. Hence, beyond creation means beyond space and this means finally beyond spatial co-ordinates. The intelligence can never cross the spatial co-ordinates and hence can never touch the boundary of this creation from which God starts.

The soul, mind, intelligence, ideas and imagination are made of nervous energy only, which is a special work form of inert energy. The human body is made of inert energy and matter. Matter is a form of inert energy. Even the space is a form of very subtle inert energy only. All this creation including the human beings is basically inert energy only. The soul is a part of this creation and therefore the creation is as true as the soul. All this creation including the souls is relative reality and God alone is the absolute reality. From the point of God, the creation is not real.

But from the point of the soul the creation is equally real. Since God is the absolute reality and soul is the relative reality, neither God is soul nor soul is God. If you say that the creation is real, it contradicts the view of God. If you say that creation is unreal, it contradicts the view of the soul. It is just like the issue of Telangana in Andhra Pradesh. If you support United State, people in Telangana oppose. If you support separate Telangana, people in the other part of the state oppose. Hence, Shankakra told that creation is neither real nor unreal and is Mithya. When a human being becomes God, the creation becomes unreal for that specific human incarnation. Here also, neither God becomes the soul and human body nor the soul and human body become God. Just like a metallic wire can be treated as current on charging with electricity, the human being charged by God is treated as God and hence we say that the human being becomes God.

still don’t see how you disproven the universe existing on it own

or proven that something beyond the universe we know is a creator intelligence and not just another more fundamental set of natural tendency’s

Originally Posted by BFSmith@764

No, God did not come in human form so that we could see Him. He, the Word, came in human form because He is our brother and He was predestined to become like us, and take back from Satan what Adam save to him, to be the second Adam, to rule as king of kings over all things, to save us from our sins and to put us a kings over all things under God's government.

Hebrews 2:17 (ASV)
17 Wherefore it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Pilate asked Jesus if He was a king and Jesus said yes that's why He was born and came into the world.

John 18:37 (BBE)
37 Then Pilate said to him, Are you then a king? Jesus made answer, You say that I am a king. For this purpose was I given birth, and for this purpose I came into the world, that I might give witness to what is true. Every lover of what is true gives ear to my voice.

Daniel 7:14 (ASV)
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


Jesus is the second Adam.....He did what the first Adam failed to do. The first Adam was suppose to resist Satan and showed him that he was above Satan and it was Satan that should bow before him......Jesus gave a command to Satan and he has to obey.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (ASV)
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Matthew 16:23 (ASV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.


Jesus came to show us who we really are.........what God meant for us to be......we are children of God because we came from Him. The breath of life that He blew into Adam came from God. Mankind is was like the son of a great king that is unable to remember who he is, and thinking that he is a servant the king. Jesus came to undo all of that.

Jesus was God in human form meaning God was present in Him all the time when He was alive in this world. Human incarnation is a combination of 2, God and that particular devotee. God enters into a great devotee of God to become the human incarnation. It is the God component which preaches wonderful divine knowledge. Also such God in human form is Immanuael meaning by coming in human form real devotees can approach such God in human form freely without any tension and fear and touch Him, and co-live with Him the way those 12 disciples did when God came as Jesus.

Another aspect is to carry the sins of His really deserving devotees upon His body and suffer for their relief from the sins. God never cancel results of sins just like that. He cancels the sins by really undergoing the sins which are pains on His body. For this purpose God comes in human form so that He can carry the sins on His body and suffer the sins the same way otherwise the devotees would have undergone.


Thus HUMAN INCARNATION of God is a very important aspect to understand correctly.

Originally Posted by dattaswami

Jesus was God in human form meaning God was present in Him all the time when He was alive in this world. Human incarnation is a combination of 2, God and that particular devotee. God enters into a great devotee of God to become the human incarnation. It is the God component which preaches wonderful divine knowledge. Also such God in human form is Immanuael meaning by coming in human form real devotees can approach such God in human form freely without any tension and fear and touch Him, and co-live with Him the way those 12 disciples did when God came as Jesus.

Another aspect is to carry the sins of His really deserving devotees upon His body and suffer for their relief from the sins. God never cancel results of sins just like that. He cancels the sins by really undergoing the sins which are pains on His body. For this purpose God comes in human form so that He can carry the sins on His body and suffer the sins the same way otherwise the devotees would have undergone.


Thus HUMAN INCARNATION of God is a very important aspect to understand correctly.

You’re not even addressing anything that I have said......it is as if you have been programmed to repeat what you’re saying.