Thread: The Other Fate of Judas

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

I changed my mind a few times actually. I cant remember why I changed my pro-lifer stance, although I think it was because I really when I began to question the whole "human life is the best" argument after I lost my religious convictions. After that it was just a slow battle of rational arguments. I've settled with the personhood argument because it is the only one I can find that can decently deflect criticisms and sustain a consistent argument not open to irreparable holes. Granted, there are a number of things I am still working out, but they are not fundamentally important. As I say, I'm still open to entirely changing my mind once again. But after reading so much, finding little to no counter-arguments here or at uni, I think I've reached the end of my journey on that topic.


Oh yes, very much so. Belief in the existence of God was crucial to my thinking, but I always sought a rational, objective justification of my beliefs so that it was something anyone could see, comprehend and adopt. I never endorsed some absolutely asinine "personal experience" argument, which I see so many Christians on PF using to justify themselves. I always found that the most offensive thing a Christian could say - that they were some how individually blessed by God so that they only need personal experience to justify their belief and application of what they thought were his morals. I always believed God's, and more specifically Jesus' teachings should be self evidently compelling - that people would find God through the value of Jesus' message. Hence why I also rejected the obsession with miracles. To me, it wasn't Jesus' death or resurrection that were important, because they didnt affect our daily lives at all - it was his moral teachings and his ethics that really mattered - since only these could change us and shape the modern day so as to improve the reality of current conditions. But anyway, I'm going on.

Wow! A five star post!

A human that just spilled a reasoned, fair and humble opinion.

Anyone can believe as they wish but as soon as a mind chooses to false witness what they can not sustain as true in the first, then any and all can and are able to judge.


Wow, megadeath making absolute sense!

Thanx as I BELIEVE each are just as ffffffff.....king capable,


Butttttt....

Originally Posted by elijah

don't worry about going on, I enjoy other peoples stories.

Sorry if I was boring, I can do that.

Originally Posted by elijah

I do have to ask, did you think your views were correct when you held them?

Well, yes and no. I wasn't certain they were entirely correct or truthful, but I thought they were close. I defended them in the areas of my views that I thought was entirely correct, but in addressing the areas I found were shaky, it opened up fundamental flaws in all the other associated beliefs. I eventually had to find new ground entirely and thus a new perspective. As a gradual and repetitive process of re-examination, which I have not stopped, I kept changing my position. I have reached a point now where I really cannot for the life of me find a valid flaw or refutation of the position I now hold. So yes, I now feel I am entirely correct - hence the reason I discuss my views, no matter how controversial. Its also the reason I constantly question others, because it inevitably leads to a test of my own views and thus further reexamination etc. As I say, this process of testing has at this point only served to strengthen my conviction, whereas before it kept leaving more problems and questions.

So ultimately, I'd like to say I think I am 95% correct now, but I will never say I have the 100% truth, because one must ALWAYS be open to criticism and self-reflection. If not, one is not trying to discover the truth - they are just facilitating an imagined sense of control.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Wow! A five star post!

A human that just spilled a reasoned, fair and humble opinion.

Anyone can believe as they wish but as soon as a mind chooses to false witness what they can not sustain as true in the first, then any and all can and are able to judge.


Wow, megadeath making absolute sense!

Thanx as I BELIEVE each are just as ffffffff.....king capable,


Butttttt....

Thanks, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Sorry if I was boring, I can do that.


Well, yes and no. I wasn't certain they were entirely correct or truthful, but I thought they were close. I defended them in the areas of my views that I thought was entirely correct, but in addressing the areas I found were shaky, it opened up fundamental flaws in all the other associated beliefs. I eventually had to find new ground entirely and thus a new perspective. As a gradual and repetitive process of re-examination, which I have not stopped, I kept changing my position. I have reached a point now where I really cannot for the life of me find a valid flaw or refutation of the position I now hold. So yes, I now feel I am entirely correct - hence the reason I discuss my views, no matter how controversial. Its also the reason I constantly question others, because it inevitably leads to a test of my own views and thus further reexamination etc. As I say, this process of testing has at this point only served to strengthen my conviction, whereas before it kept leaving more problems and questions.

So ultimately, I'd like to say I think I am 95% correct now, but I will never say I have the 100% truth, because one must ALWAYS be open to criticism and self-reflection. If not, one is not trying to discover the truth - they are just facilitating an imagined sense of control.

So you could be wrong?

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Well abortion was one, I used to be a lifer. I used to be religious, but slowly dropped that, although that was primarily through personal thought, although a lot of religious people accused me of being an atheist for asking questions they couldn't answer, so that might have pushed me along. ...

Ditto, except for being called an atheist for asking questions. I seldom did that. I was even raised with a literalist & creationist type of view. As you can imagine, I got tired of trying to convince myself that science was wrong about certain things just because a book of translated, edited ancient scriptures seemed to disagree with them.

I'm amused when the religious polks accuse me today of not understanding God, the bible, Christianity or whatever. I was into it for many, many years as a Lutheran and even attended a Lutheran college. The only thing that changed from then to now is I quit lying to myself and others. Christianity is terribly easy to understand, and it's also all too easy to see how wrong it all is.

Originally Posted by elijah

So you could be wrong?

Of course, but I highly doubt it. Like I said, I didnt just wake up and say "oh I think I'm right this time." It took a lot of thought and research. But as I say, I'm entirely open to being refuted and thus changing my entire set of beliefs. It seems at this point however, that I am well and truly at the top of the mountain if you get me.

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Of course, but I highly doubt it. Like I said, I didnt just wake up and say "oh I think I'm right this time." It took a lot of thought and research. But as I say, I'm entirely open to being refuted and thus changing my entire set of beliefs. It seems at this point however, that I am well and truly at the top of the mountain if you get me.

at what ages were you when you changed your views?

Originally Posted by elijah

at what ages were you when you changed your views?

Like I said, it was a slow process, so I cant really say for sure when I had really lost my religious conviction. But I'd say I started on my inevitable path at around 16 and lost my religious views definitively by 19. That's actually quite late for most people who lose their religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by elijah

So you could be wrong?

That's the first sign of a good person; capable of evolving!

Originally Posted by MegadethFan

Of course, but I highly doubt it. Like I said, I didnt just wake up and say "oh I think I'm right this time." It took a lot of thought and research. But as I say, I'm entirely open to being refuted and thus changing my entire set of beliefs. It seems at this point however, that I am well and truly at the top of the mountain if you get me.

Learning takes an open mind while developing the language and experience.

It is like loving Santa every season but then realizing it was just a learning phase.