Thread: RICK WARREN ASKS, “WHY BE DIVISIVE?” "Most influential Christian preacher in America"

Originally Posted by churchmouse

thebrucebeat said,



Not if they are reading directly from the Bible. I have taught children who can't read yet…and they get it. The gospel is not that hard to get. Sure Revelation is a harder book and even great theologians disagree about its message. But the gospel is easy.



I take heart to what you called my husband, you implied he is an idiot in fact you implied that anyone who does not read is an idiot. He can read. He has a college degree for crying out loud…but he does not enjoy reading books. And I should say here that he is not a walking believer unfortunately. I am praying about that.

A sharp tongue you have. What is in your heart?




I just read an excellent book called Think Like Jesus, by George Barna.

He concludes that most Christians do not read their bibles. Most don't even take their Bibles to church with them. Most do not use the Bible to make the moral decisions of their lives. So I do agree there. Sometimes I do not like to read so I use other sources. I have an entire tape set of the Bible and I love to turn it on and listen to it in the dark. Of course I read when I do Bible studies…but I do love to listen to the Word, just like I love to listen to music.

You seem to be a very harsh person. So you obviously just read and don't go to church. Is this biblical that we not go to church?

I do go to church, actually.

When you are listening to someone else read, you are listening to their interpretation of scripture. I was a professional actor for 30 years, and I can take a script and make it mean very different things depending on how I approach it. So can they. Nothing can replace the direct interaction with a book. It is the only way that you are not putting someone else between you and the written word.

Barna is great. In spite of his being an evangelical Christian, he pulls no punches with his polling and research. What he finds is, of course, very disappointing from the point of view of uplifting the reputation of believers. As it turns out, they are quite average in most respects. I spoke with him once about going to work for him, as I have a great deal of respect for his work. His pride doesn't get in the way of his telling the truth.
Quite rare.

As for your husband, or whatever he may be, I didn't call him an idiot. I said he has put himself in the perfect position to become a malleable drone. He has. If he is as bright as you say he is, tell him to shake off the lazies and read if he has a real interest. The fact is, he doesn't, as you said he has been unmoved toward belief by hearing the others try to convince him. Perhaps he needs better actors to play their parts. They clearly aren't believable to him.

Originally Posted by thebrucebeat

I do go to church, actually.

When you are listening to someone else read, you are listening to their interpretation of scripture. I was a professional actor for 30 years, and I can take a script and make it mean very different things depending on how I approach it. So can they. Nothing can replace the direct interaction with a book. It is the only way that you are not putting someone else between you and the written word.

Barna is great. In spite of his being an evangelical Christian, he pulls no punches with his polling and research. What he finds is, of course, very disappointing from the point of view of uplifting the reputation of believers. As it turns out, they are quite average in most respects. I spoke with him once about going to work for him, as I have a great deal of respect for his work. His pride doesn't get in the way of his telling the truth.
Quite rare.

As for your husband, or whatever he may be, I didn't call him an idiot. I said he has put himself in the perfect position to become a malleable drone. He has. If he is as bright as you say he is, tell him to shake off the lazies and read if he has a real interest. The fact is, he doesn't, as you said he has been unmoved toward belief by hearing the others try to convince him. Perhaps he needs better actors to play their parts. They clearly aren't believable to him.

Not true. I read to people in care facilities who can't read for many reasons. I read the Words of God….I do not add I do not take away. ARe you saying because someone is blind they can't ever know the scriptures because they can't read for themselves? Absurd.

I will ignore what you said about my husband and your sarcastic view of the situation. ACtors to play their parts? You mean me….that is who you are pointing at.

I take that personally and think you are very very mean spirited.

You do seem to have a grasp of one thing….Pride.

Originally Posted by churchmouse

Not true. I read to people in care facilities who can't read for many reasons. I read the Words of God….I do not add I do not take away. ARe you saying because someone is blind they can't ever know the scriptures because they can't read for themselves? Absurd.

I will ignore what you said about my husband and your sarcastic view of the situation. ACtors to play their parts? You mean me….that is who you are pointing at.

I take that personally and think you are very very mean spirited.

You do seem to have a grasp of one thing….Pride.

But blind people CAN read.

You can not speak without inflection, and those inflections define emphasis and intention. Trust me. I know. You can't read without it without putting the listener to sleep.

By strange coincidence, I actually saw Rick Warren in a Thai restaurant when I was on vacation. One of the family friends pointed him out to me.
He is fond of chicken curry and apparently had a little weight problem.

Another coincidence, perhaps not worth mentioning, on another vaction I briefly sat behind the CEO's desk at Focus on the Family. I guess it is not really anything to boast about. This was many years ago, today there would probably be so much security concern that this could never happen.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

By strange coincidence, I actually saw Rick Warren in a Thai restaurant when I was on vacation. One of the family friends pointed him out to me.
He is fond of chicken curry and apparently had a little weight problem.

Last I heard, about 2 yrs ago, he challenged his church to go on a diet wit him (??)

Originally Posted by thebrucebeat

But blind people CAN read.

You can not speak without inflection, and those inflections define emphasis and intention. Trust me. I know. You can't read without it without putting the listener to sleep.

No they can't read….so people could read to them.

The gospel might put you to sleep….it never would me. Trust me I know.

Originally Posted by churchmouse

No they can't read….so people could read to them.

The gospel might put you to sleep….it never would me. Trust me I know.

Yes they can read. That is why braille was developed.

It's not the gospel that puts one to sleep, it's someone reading with no inflection or variety, which you would have to do in order not to color the text with your expression.
But you knew that. You weren't making an honest argument, were you?

Originally Posted by thebrucebeat

Yes they can read. That is why braille was developed.

It's not the gospel that puts one to sleep, it's someone reading with no inflection or variety, which you would have to do in order not to color the text with your expression.
But you knew that. You weren't making an honest argument, were you?

You are unbelievable….arrogant, prideful. Wow.

There are people who are sick who can not read. My mother on her death bed…could not pick up even an object, or hold her head up to see.
She had scleroderma…and I would read the Word to her. It is sad that you are so hateful of fellow believers that you think someone would change the Word in order to sabotage anthers faith by reading the Word wrong.

You take the Holy Spirit out of all of this….because when I read….HE IS WITH ME. It is sad that He is not with you apparently. SAd too that hat they only method of sharing the gospel for you is for someone to ONLY read themselves.

I got news for ya skippy. There are missionaries out in the field who do not have Bibles…who share the gospel with the unsaved. And guess what? People still get saved. People can still come to know the Lord.

Originally Posted by churchmouse

You are unbelievable….arrogant, prideful. Wow.

There are people who are sick who can not read. My mother on her death bed…could not pick up even an object, or hold her head up to see.
She had scleroderma…and I would read the Word to her. It is sad that you are so hateful of fellow believers that you think someone would change the Word in order to sabotage anthers faith by reading the Word wrong.

You take the Holy Spirit out of all of this….because when I read….HE IS WITH ME. It is sad that He is not with you apparently. SAd too that hat they only method of sharing the gospel for you is for someone to ONLY read themselves.

I got news for ya skippy. There are missionaries out in the field who do not have Bibles…who share the gospel with the unsaved. And guess what? People still get saved. People can still come to know the Lord.

Your anger is blinding you.
No one has said anything about a believer intentionally sabotaging another's faith. Why did you do that? That isn't honest or noble. I said you can't read aloud without injecting your understanding of the text through your vocal performance. It can't be done. I am not suggesting this is evil or intentional or devious.

I'm not so naive to think there aren't drastic situations that would prevent any other method of confronting scripture than by hearing it from someone else, but there are dangers and limitations to it and it is not ideal.
What I do find very telling is that people OFTEN say they don't like to read so they don't pick up their bible, or that it's hard. Well, then, it simply isn't important enough for these people to overcome these inconveniences.

thebrucebeat said,

"Your anger is blinding you."

I am not angry…frustrated is a better word. Because I 100% disagree with you…that you can't read the Word to someone or to spread the gospel by reading the Word….without changing the meaning.

"No one has said anything about a believer intentionally sabotaging another's faith. Why did you do that? That isn't honest or noble. I said you can't read aloud without injecting your understanding of the text through your vocal performance. It can't be done. I am not suggesting this is evil or intentional or devious."

I believe you are wrong, totally. Maybe you think that YOU CANT DO IT…because being an actor you are so used to interjecting YOUR take on things…that to tackle the bible without acting it out…is impossible. It is not for me.

And they make tapes that people can buy with someone who reads the entire bible so that people can enjoy it.

"I'm not so naive to think there aren't drastic situations that would prevent any other method of confronting scripture than by hearing it from someone else, but there are dangers and limitations to it and it is not ideal."

You isolate much of the population…by your view. Sometimes I put a tape on in my car…when I am driving long distances.

I just totally disagree with you.

"What I do find very telling is that people OFTEN say they don't like to read so they don't pick up their bible, or that it's hard. Well, then, it simply isn't important enough for these people to overcome these inconveniences."

You are so legalistic. Do it or else…do it this way or it isn't the real thing….wow. Do you also think that if the temperature of the baptismal water isn't a certain temp the baptism is not legit? Does it have to be wine…can't it be grape juice? Wow.

What is important is hearing the Word….spreading the Word and holding the Word up as the Truth to unbelievers. I love Ravi Zacarius….and listen to him preach on tapes. I do have all his books and have read all of them….but I love to hear the love in his voice when he talks and reads the Word. And when he reads he reads directly from the Bible…because sometimes I follow along.

I love to listen to old Billy Graham sermons..and I love David Jeremiah. I read my bible…but sometimes I love to listen to others talk.


I don't agree with you at all.