Thread: The Catholic Church's Fortnight of Freedom

Originally Posted by AbsoluteVoluntarist

You don't need the state to use tax money to pay for highways. There are private highways even today.

Yes, I live near one. E470 in Denver is wonderful. No one ever uses it. Do you know why? It doesn't really go anywhere people need to go, but even much more important, it COSTS money. People would rather wait in traffic becuase it's FREE, even though I bet they are spending more money idling their cars. So what does this tell you about private highways? Oh also, E470 is way behind it's profit projections.

I don't have a problem with private highways, but the public does. And there is no way you could make enough money at it to justify all the roads we have now. So you would effectively disconnect societies, cities, towns, farmers, and a whole host of Americans from where they live and work. They would wind up in poverty or moving into cities where private highways would be profitable. So essentially, private highways would act like mass transit once did, creating dense population centers and alienating those who live outside of them. If that's the America you want, that's fine with me. The country and farming is over rated. But just realize you would alter America drastically.

Originally Posted by Sean Michael

I do not think anyone should have to pay for the legalisation of state murder.

Birth control is not murder. It is not even close.

If the Christain hosptials, schools, and shelters began to shut their doors and stop providing it's services to the American public. I think America would have greater concerns, therefore when Christianity goes such a long in providing for the welfare of the American people it's opinion on what it believes to be detrimental to the American people should also go a long way.

So Christians get to decide health care policy simply because they provide services? I thought we were supposed to help people with no such payback or reward? What political power did Jesus ask for in exchange for his works? None, the answer is none, in fact his own words indicate he did not feel the Roman state or the Jewish state were to owe him a thing and vice versa. You don't get to hold religious gun to the heads of Americans, the first amendment expressly forbids that. If that were to happen, it would create a nation where everyone isn't free to worship as they see fit. Allowing churches to dictate public policy based on their beliefs is not a step towards religious freedom but away from it.

Originally Posted by Gdawg007

Yes, I live near one. E470 in Denver is wonderful. No one ever uses it. Do you know why? It doesn't really go anywhere people need to go, but even much more important, it COSTS money. People would rather wait in traffic becuase it's FREE, even though I bet they are spending more money idling their cars. So what does this tell you about private highways? Oh also, E470 is way behind it's profit projections.

I don't have a problem with private highways, but the public does. And there is no way you could make enough money at it to justify all the roads we have now. So you would effectively disconnect societies, cities, towns, farmers, and a whole host of Americans from where they live and work. They would wind up in poverty or moving into cities where private highways would be profitable. So essentially, private highways would act like mass transit once did, creating dense population centers and alienating those who live outside of them. If that's the America you want, that's fine with me. The country and farming is over rated. But just realize you would alter America drastically.

Government roads aren't free. They're paid by taxes. People prefer to use them because if they don't, they have to pay twice: toll for the private road and tax for the government road they don't use. It's similar to how private school parents are forced to pay twice for the school, since they're also paying taxes for the government schools. Thus, the government tilts the playing field. That hardly means it's necessary for roads.

If it's not profitable to build a highway in the middle of the boondocks, that means it cost more in resources than the value it's worth to consumers and is a waste. If that causes a pattern of high density cities and low density country, as opposed to large tracts of suburdan sprawl, that's because that pattern is more economical. Probably better for the environment too.

Birth control is not murder. It is not even close.

Some forms are birth control act as abortifacients, preventing fertilized eggs from implanting. If you agree life starts at conception, that's the taking of a human life.

So Christians get to decide health care policy simply because they provide services? I thought we were supposed to help people with no such payback or reward? What political power did Jesus ask for in exchange for his works? None, the answer is none, in fact his own words indicate he did not feel the Roman state or the Jewish state were to owe him a thing and vice versa. You don't get to hold religious gun to the heads of Americans, the first amendment expressly forbids that. If that were to happen, it would create a nation where everyone isn't free to worship as they see fit. Allowing churches to dictate public policy based on their beliefs is not a step towards religious freedom but away from it.

Of course everyone should get to decide the health care "policy" of the health care they pay for. They certainly have more of a right to decide that private policy than the state, which doesn't pay for it. It has nothing to do with a "reward" and it has nothing to do with holding a gun to anyone's head, but with the freedom to make voluntary contracts and provide voluntary services under the terms you choose. The only one holding a gun to anyone's head is the government.

Originally Posted by Gdawg007

Birth control is not murder. It is not even close.



So Christians get to decide health care policy simply because they provide services? I thought we were supposed to help people with no such payback or reward? What political power did Jesus ask for in exchange for his works? None, the answer is none, in fact his own words indicate he did not feel the Roman state or the Jewish state were to owe him a thing and vice versa. You don't get to hold religious gun to the heads of Americans, the first amendment expressly forbids that. If that were to happen, it would create a nation where everyone isn't free to worship as they see fit. Allowing churches to dictate public policy based on their beliefs is not a step towards religious freedom but away from it.

I never said that Christians should get to decide anything. I said our opinion should be held in a regard that is compatiable with what we do.
Christians are helping people by sticking to their beliefs, they are trying to form a better society. Christians are not looking for a reward we are looking to be listened to. America has the freedom of religion that no one religion was to be held above others. It is supposed to protect people of faith from being discriminated against, from other religions or from secularists. Now however the secularists are forcing upon others, what they believe to be immoral. Allowing a secular minority dictate policies is what is really happening. A majority of americans still consider themselves Christian, so therefore the Christian opinion should account for more.