Sorry to burst your bubble but the council didn't do this to create an happy medium for all the christian sect. It was a political move to recruit the masses on a quest to exterminte those christian sect that were rebelious against its authority. Ask the Aryan or the Cathar sect how did it go.

The book ommited weren't excluded on the base that they were not "happy" they were excluded because they didn't "lead" the reader toward "their" vision of what the church should become. Hence Mary Magdellen became a prostitute and Judas became the model of a "shwine juden" for all the facist to come after them.

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Note: A boomerang is a stupid way to deliver a bomb

Wile E. Coyote

You're right. Hehehe. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the universe could still exist wouldn't matter because life couldn't exist in that state reguardless if any other matter could.

I've conceded that the entire universe could have been made for more than just us by considering the possibility of life elsewhere. Our planet in our solar system was made for life. Us.

You're taking for granted that it wasn't made for us. We all take things for granted depending on our beliefs.

Tons of Christians have stories on how their lives completely changed when they were "born again." They've experienced the infilling of the Holy Spirit. They have personal testimony. Do you think billions of people are lying about it?

Mak, I use this site for the Online Gnostic Gospel.

For the longest time the noted scholars and scientists were men of the cloth. Like I say time and time again, science and religion can intertwine and do, it's the ignorance of man that keeps them apart.

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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat

Traveling Templar

No, I am not taking anything for granted, I am saying your belief that it was made for us is unreasonable and irrational, I do not share this belief.
Actually, interestingly you are now saying that this solar system was made for us, not the entire universe.
So what do think the other solar systems have been or are being made for? You do realise that they are developing over time, don't you?

Ah, so the event you are referring to is experiencing "the infilling of the Holy Spirit". How does this subjective, inner experience prove that the Christian god exists, is the only god, and created the universe (and created this solar system for us)?

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The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. -- Albert Einstein

Makedde,

Actually i have joined this forum after i have read your thoughts and comments.

Forgive me if i did not read all posts and comments made by other persons in this thread, but i was

interested in knowing and understanding your thoughts. Maybe what i would comment, you already know or hear around, but i will try to put it and simplify it the way i see it.

A person who do not believe in god or in search for if there god must for his soul peace and mental peace decide and be certain 100% whether there is god or there is no god and this can be done by searching with open mind, understanding why religions do believe in god and what are the reasons of
the ones who don't believe in god. This is not as easy for some as it might be for others, but if the person is honest and sincere with himself and start searching by using and understanding logic, religions, science and facts and the differences between them, etc.. He must made up his mind and be certain and should get in mental and soul peace at the end.

I do believe in God and my thoughts and beliefs are Islamic Based, So the background of my comments and thoughts are Islamic and self based and i will try explain my thoughts and beliefs.

I have born and raised as a Muslim but i did once have deep problem if God does exist or not when i reached puberty and i started to think my own way but i have solved it quickly and sincerely by thinking and making clear steps and the first step would be is to search and decide whether does God really exist or not and in case if you find he does exist, then why he created us and understand God.

1. Step One: Does God exist ?
2. Step Two: If he exist then why he created us ?

As for me after almost 3-5 days of insomnia and deep thinking, i have concluded and was certain that he exist, simply using logic, facts and reading some scientific facts in the Quran which were discovered recently by scientists and no way a human or a fake prophet would knew before at that time. This how easy it was for me, but persons are different and every person has his own mentality and his way of thinking and understanding, i usually use logic and facts, other do not believe in logic and believe in philosophy, or sciences, etc and each person if he is sincere with himself he would search for god in his own way, in the end IF God does really exist he must have signs for his existence everywhere and for each person and it depend in the person.

Also we must use common sense or logic which any person with normal brain would agree with and i will get it directly and demonstrate my all points and thoughts by some examples which are a replies to some of your comments as well.

Most of us agree a man can not be equal to a women and this is what logic, science actually tell us and no one can disagree except people who can not prove there claims and has usually have interests behind that or ignoring facts, They are differences in the look (organs) feeling in which a female is mush softer and even in the mentality in which a female is mush smarter than a male proven by Anatomy science, etc while the man is mush harder physically and less sensible, etc Even in the animals, i don't know if you watch animal documentary films too mush, but its obvious the female role is different than the male role.

So using all standards and even by watching documentary animals films a male can not be equal to a female becuase the word equal mean they are 100% the same which is not true and thus since they are not equal they can not have the same roles in everything.

You can say 1 USD is equal 1 USD becuase they have the same role and value 100% both of them can buy the same thing thus having the same role 100%, but you can not say a male is equal to a female becuase they are 100% the same, they are physiologically, anatomically different and they do not have the same roles 100% and nor can have the same roles, thus the word equal can not be applied.

So if there is God and there is a correct religion from God, then this religion should not go against logic and science and common facts which confirm male and female to be different,So since God who has created them and made them different in physiologically, anatomically and other differences for reasons, etc then his correct religion must go with these differences and confirm them and explain why these differences exist.

Now lets say your a teacher and you have students, some of them study and some does not, some of them did good in the exam and some did not and lets say they are students of medicine, now no honest teacher would pass the one who did not pass the exam or have does not enough knowledge to pass becuase the one if he do so this future Doctor instead of saving people they would be killing people. So in almost all nations and schools, the one who does not have the enough knowledge not pass the exam and the ones who study and prepared for the exam would pass it easily to next year or graduation. Ofocurse the one who did not study was doing something else, maybe following his desires and the one who study was not following his desires but what is good for him in future.

So, if there is God and he created us for a reason which is logically would be to worship him and obey him, then the one who do worship him can not be equal to the one who do not worship him. The one killing, stealing can not be equal to one who save life's and help in charity, etc

Also by logic and law, someone who kill innocent life should be killed or jailed in some countries, they do not give him a price...

So if there is God and we must worship him, then there should be different in judgment for the one who obey and the ones who do not in which we believe its heaven and hell.

If you say to the students you all will pass the exam, then no one would study becuase all of them will pass and all of them will be killing people as Doctors and if you say to them no one will pass, the same result will occur and no one will study becuase all will fail and there will be no Doctors to help sick people, its the same if God exist and we all go to heaven, then no one will obey and everyone will do whatever he likes and there will be killing, rape, wars, destruction everywhere, and same result would be if we all go to hell.

You have to use logic and common sense, if everyone goes according to his feeling and desires then there will be chaos and no organization and negative results. If you do not stay and study for your exam and follow your desires then you will fail and probably you will have no decent job and you have bad consequences.

Lets say someone like drinking and smoking and he keep drinking and smoking even he know he will die from them, he can not say i smoke and drink becuase i have born to like them, becuase its an acquired habits, if he say that he is just making a justification for himself that's they are ok in his case, where in Medicine smoking or drinking or both will get you cancers as well as other serious diseases and his justification goes against logic, facts and science.

So:
1. You can not say you like drinking and smoking becuase you born to like them becuase its Acquired habits.
2. You can not say its ok, because they are not proven by knowledge, science, medicine, etc to be ok.

* You only can admit they are Acquired habits and you like them becuase you have used to like them and you can not stop them.


There is no gene known as smoking gene and there is no gene known as drinking gene and there is no gene known as Gay gene.

In genetic there are genetic diseases which you born with and Acquired diseases which you get them in ife, so in the Gay issue you can say you like it you can say your used to like it, you can say you can not stop it or live without it but you can not say:

1. You born with it becuase its an Acquired habit.
2. You can not say its ok, becuase medically i can give you a huge serious diseases which is becuase of gayness, just like the smoking and drinking example.

And the reason you say you born with it is just a justification for your desires which goes against all common sense and facts and examples i just provided.

You do not see animals males sleeping together or females sleeping together and im sure if there is a gene for that it we would knew about it, but its the human being who commit all what goes against his nature which he had acquired in his life and yet try to justify it when all facts and knowledge are against it.

Last not everything can be interpreted according to everyone own thinking, some issues are clear and have no more than one interpretation and thus you can not make more.

Some things are complicated and need specialists to understand, analyze, compare generally and specifically with other issues, etc... before concluding a result and thus not everyone can interpret, as a mathematic person has nothing to do with chemistry and an English professor has nothing to do with Arabic and there are Standards for each and every knowledge which must be followed in order to achieve a correct result.

You are correct JF. It easier to "take the easy road".

The 'easy road' is filled with with common sense and reasoning. That is why it is easier. To believe in some old dude floating in the sky created everything, you must throw out all common sense and reasoning. Its is much harder living that way.

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rstones199 - The Voice Of Reason!

Don't worry, my homosexual marriage will NOT interfere with your heterosexual divorce

Straight Edge - the only way to live ones life. That means no mind altering garbage like drugs (that includes alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine) and religion.

Again JF, since 'God' is both omnipotent and omniscient, Maks path was chosen for her before she was born. She didn't choose anything. Same with 'salvation'. That is, of course, you believe in this nonsense to begin with.

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rstones199 - The Voice Of Reason!

Don't worry, my homosexual marriage will NOT interfere with your heterosexual divorce

Straight Edge - the only way to live ones life. That means no mind altering garbage like drugs (that includes alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine) and religion.

Are you for real?

If one is to take the book of Genesis seriously, then we all came from Adam and Eve, the pair that lived together, in the same time period.

DNA disproves this nonsense.

We have a dilemma here. If the bible is the 'word of God', then 'God' could not have wrote the DNA. If he did, then Adam and Eve would be from the same time period. But that is not the case.

If you want to say that the bible should not taken literally, then I would ask: If the bible is the word of your 'God' and we should not take his word literally, then why should we take him literally? Perhaps your 'God' and the bible is just a guide on how some think one should live their life? Perhaps your 'God' is nothing more than a metaphor for good, and does not exist.

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rstones199 - The Voice Of Reason!

Don't worry, my homosexual marriage will NOT interfere with your heterosexual divorce

Straight Edge - the only way to live ones life. That means no mind altering garbage like drugs (that includes alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine) and religion.

Sorry Mak,if it sounded like I called you a liar...


With that being said,No I'm not calling Mak a liar.Some people skim Books and you can't do that with the Bible and learn much compared to if you read it all...

Plus I assumed she didn't read the whole Bible based on her post in the Q and A thread on 06-01-2009, 03:34 AM
Yes,indeed I can't prove that she didn't read the whole Bible in 6 months Based on her line of questioning.. I do have my doubts but as I explained,people skim the Bible...

I don't like to insult people,I take no joy in that... Not in the least...I, AM A MAN OF GOD!!!
( thunder sounds here)

She sure did say she read the Bible. I said that by her knowledge she didn't read it. By what I read it is a valid question. You can try to point fingers - make accusations - whatever...

If she has read the Bible from cover to cover - then I suggest she read it again because it didn't sink in...