When was the last time we hear of a christion terorist hijacking a plane or a jewish terrorist of blowing up an embasey????????????????????????

Thats what I am talking about.

Islam needs to grow up. We dont see popes calling for crusades.

Even their own see it;
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP46003

January 24, 2003 No.460
Malaysian Prime Minister on the Need for the Muslim World to Pursue Knowledge to Catch Up with the West
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Muhammad recently addressed an international forum on Islam in Kuala Lumpur titled, "The State of the Muslim World Today: Knowledge as a Tool for Muslim Empowerment." In his speech,(1) the prime minister discussed the need for the Muslim world to pursue a campaign of knowledge acquisition so that it may compete with the West. The following are excerpts from his speech:
"The Status of the Muslim World is at the Lowest Ebb"
"I don't think that it would be wrong to say that the status of the Muslim world is at the lowest ebb, and is probably continuing to decline."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His conclusions are one thing but the facts are still the facts.
Samuel P. Huntington's classic "The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order" .
Huntington notes that "....Muslims make up about one-fifth of the world's population but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization [includes Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Hindu, Chinese, Buddhist, Jewish]. The evidence is overwhelming...". Huntington cites the data provided below in support of his contention that at least in the 1990s (and likely in the greater part of the 20th century) Muslim countries or people have shown the highest propensity for violence in relation to the conflicts they have engaged in. At least in later part of the 20th century, he cites data (below) indicating that Muslim countries have also shown the highest military force ratios in relationship to their population and wealth. He clarifies that the data does not mean that other civilizations do not indulge in violence (for instance he points out that "...In the past Christians killed fellow Christians and other people in massive numbers..."), but just that Muslim groups and countries engage in disproportionately higher violence.
1. Ethnopolitical Conflicts, 1993-1994
Source: Ted Robert Gurr, "Peoples Against States: Ethnopolitical Conflict and the Changing World System," International Studies Quarterly, Vol. 38 (Sep. 1994), pp. 347-378.
Note: one item in the table below shifted by Huntington to Inter from Intra - the Tibetian-Chinese conflict
Comments:
3X inter-civilizational conflicts involving Muslims compared to other civilizations
Conflicts within Islam also higher than within other civilizations
West involved in only two inter- and intra-civilizational conflicts at this time
Conflicts involving Muslims tended to have heavier casualties. Six wars had estimated casualties >= 200,000 : three were inter-civilizational involving Muslims (Sudan, Bosnia, East Timor), two were intra-civilizational involving Muslims (Somalia, Iraq-Kurds), and one conflict had only non-Muslims (Angola).
CivilizationIntra-civilization conflictInter-civilization conflictTotalIslam111526Other19*524Total302050* Of which 10 were tribal conflicts in Africa
2. Ethnic Conflicts, 1993
Source: New York Times, Feb. 7, 1993, pp. 1, 14
Comments:
Nearly 50% of conflicts involved Muslims
Two-thirds of inter-civilizational conflicts involved Muslims
CivilizationIntra-civilization conflictInter-civilization conflictTotalIslam72128Other21*1031Total283159* Of which 10 were tribal conflicts in Africa
3. Wars, 1992
Source: Ruth Leger Sivard, World Military and Social Expenditures 1993 (Washington, D.C.: World Priorities, Inc., 1993) pp. 20-22
Comments:
29 wars (defined as conflicts involving >= 1000 deaths/year) identified in 1992
9 out of 12 inter-civilizational conflicts involved Muslims
Muslims were fighting more wars than people from any other civilization
4. Militarism of Muslim and Christian countries
Source: James L. Payne, Why Nations Arm (Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1989), pp. 125, 138-139. Muslim and Christian countries are defined here as those in which more than 80% of the population adhere to the defining religion.
Definitions:
Average force ratio = # of military personnel/1000 population
Average military effort = force ratio adjusted for country's wealth
Comments:
Muslim countries had much higher military force ratios and effort indices than other countries (rows 2 and 3 below), and ratios were about 2X those of Christian countries.
Christian countries had significantly lower military force ratios and effort indices than other countries (rows 4 and 5 below)
CountriesAverage Force RatioAverage Military EffortMuslim countries (n=25)11.817.7Other countries (n=112)7.112.3Christian countries (n=57)5.88.2Other countries (n=80)9.516.95. Use of violence to resolve conflicts, 1928-1979
Sources:
Samuel P. Huntington's book referenced above, page 258
Christopher B. Stone, "Westphalia and Hudaybiyya: A Survey of Islamic Perspectives on the Use of Force as Conflict Management Technique" (unpublished paper, Harvard University), pp. 27-31
Jonathan Wilkenfield, Michael Brecher, and Sheila Moser, eds. Crises in the Twentieth Century (Oxford: Pergamon Press, 1988-89), II, 15, 161.
Comments:
CountriesTotal # of crises involved in (1928-1979)# Crises where violence was used in part or whole % Crises where violence was used in part or whole Other commentsChinaData not providedData not provided76.9 %-Muslim countries1427653.5 %High-intensity violence used in ~80% of the cases where violence was usedSoviet UnionData not providedData not provided28.5 %U. S.Data not providedData not provided17.9 %U. K.Data not providedData not provided11.5 %Root causes of violence in Islam?

Although Huntington does not conclusively show the causes leading to the higher propensity for violence in Islamic countries, he lists some possibilities:
(a) Propensity towards violence: Huntington's view is that the Koran and other statements of Muslim beliefs contain few prohibitions on violence, and that the concept of nonviolence is absent from Muslim doctrine and practice.
(b) Demographic shift, i.e., due to a significant growth in population of Muslim youth in a region, exceeding a certain threshold or next nearest demographic group. Huntington links such trends to many conflicts, and clarifies that a large number of unemployed Muslim males in the age group of 15-30 goes a long way in explaining Muslim conflicts and violence in the 1980s and 1990s.
(c) Difficulty living with(in) other cultures: Huntington says that of the major religions/civilizations, Islam is essentially alone in not separating religion and politics, and as a result, "...Confucians, Buddhists, Hindus, Western Christians, and Orthodox Christians have less difficulty adapting to and living with each other than any one of them has in adapting to and living with Muslims..." The example he cites is how Chinese live as an economically dominant minority in most Southeast Asian nations, and assimilated well into Buddhist Thailand and Catholic Philippines, but are more subject to anti-Chinese riots and/or violence in Muslim Indonesia and Muslim Malaysia.
(d) Absence of a "core" state in Islam: Islam lacks a "dominant center" or state that could play a leading role in moderating or managing conflicts involving Muslims, and one that could act on behalf of Islam.
Finally, he states that the arguments offered by some Muslim supporters that Muslims have been victimized by "anti-Muslim prejudice" and "trapped on reservations converted from their ancestral lands" does not explain conflicts between Muslim majorities and non-Muslim minorities in countries such as Sudan, Egypt, Iran and Indonesia.
http://www.eriposte.com/war_peace/ot...m_violence.htm

Being guided and indiscriminately targeting and having the american public go along i hardly the same thing.

While you may be right that the death of a mother or her child or innocent{define that please} civillian is comparable regardless of the circumstances, you are misleading in the claim that this does not try to impose a false moral equivalence on the overall terrorist positions. you do not limit yourself to showing the similarities of the mothers’ losses and pain, disclaimer notwithstanding. By trying to portray each and every person as victim of a nebulous “cycle of violence,” you obscure the truer parallel — that all have lost loved ones as a result of terrorism.Bush would not be in afghanistan or iraq today if it were not for islamic terroists.

Can yopu name me one attack Bush has made by resorting to the bible as THE reason?I recall dead women and children in new york as THE reason.

Then you're narrowing terrorism down to that which only non-Jew militants resort to. Israeli terrorism is committed with bulldozers.
No but you do hear Israeli settlement proponents doing so. All Abrahamists need to grow up.

__________________
I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible.
HuffPo's Off The Bus campaign coverage project....Off The Bus Blog

Hardly. Tho he hadn't cited biblical specifics, Dubya's just after the vague boogeymen called "evildoers". In his book Saddam was one and that's all Dubya needed to know. Obviously.

__________________
I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible.
HuffPo's Off The Bus campaign coverage project....Off The Bus Blog

buldozing a hous supporting tyerrorist and being used for such is defense not teror. I am not buying your moral equivalancey .Please answer the question.

Israeli settlement proponents;
1. do not make isralei policy as is clear by the pull outs and FACT that palestinians are still there.

2. Have not launched any suicide bombings or rockets into palestinian areas last I heard.

apples and oranges friend.

Yess they all do. Ny final position hasd always been, pull out, let them buy all the arms{conventional } they want and duke it out since thats what they seem bent on. Let them have at it and leave us out. Last man standding wins.

They wantto be that way then go ahead but count me out.

You are not serious are you. saddam is not evil. the 3000 dead was not evil?? thats really sick.

I thought this was a general thread about Islam. Like its belief system and not about me!

SedyAlpha,

You seem to forget that many die through economic embargoes initiated by the US admin. Or that many tanks and bulldozers are supplied from the US to Israel.

The many violent acts by Neo-Nazis in Europe and in the US! By the way, the national media fails to cover many violent acts by Non-Muslims!

What happened to the many violent acts of the Right wing paramilitataries in Colombia or government supported groups in Latin America! You never hear it barely in the media.

Stop the BS! Get real!

There are many violents acts committed by Non-Muslims. Many crimes in the US are committed by Non-Muslims on Non-Muslims.Hence, the growth of the US prison system! Barely, do you hear of violent crimes by Muslims in the US or abroad! Muslims do not vandalize religous centers in the US! Many Non-Muslims do this to Muslims and Non-Muslims! Yes, Jews have committed some crimes in the US and in Non-US areas of the world and some are the ones are mostly caught spying on the US for Israel.

Again, political crimes are by Muslims but not social crimes which are hampering the prison system in the US. Political crimes are small in comparison to social crimes. There are many social crimes in the US committed by Non-Muslims. And you seem to forget the history of the KKK in the US! By the way, why are they given the right to march aren't they a terrorist group?

This forum is general. this thread is specific. if you wish to start one on another topic feel free.
i just wish you would wait till I get back but thats my lose.

The tanks ...so what. they have a rightto defensdd themselves. The munitions supplied by and to the other side???? remember them?

the media fails in a lot of ways.

the south americans are not bombbing the use or suiciding buildings around the world. they at least for the most part isolate to theri little slice of heaven.

By the way. I have started several threads about terrorist in south america. Seems Al Qaeda loves it there.

i am talking islamists. You are making excuses for them. Why so defensive. this is exactly why so many do not buy what you are saling. Instead of standding agionst them you try and calim moderat ground but refuse to condem their actions and in fact condone it by deflecting to others and using the same old childish bit; they did so whay cant I.

When moderate muslims do not stand up against thios evil then they are naturally accounted as part of it. they infact give back handed support to it.

"Islamists" sure! I agree but who is an "Islamists"? and what does it mean?

Probably the new or overlooked descriptions are:

A) Violent Islamists or Jihadists Islamists

B) Non-Violent Islamists or Political non-Jihadists Islamists

I do not believe there is such a thing as moderate Muslims. Unless they are "moderate" in their faith then I would agree in this term.

I am defensive because it would seem your attacking Islam in general rather than being specific. Your subject thread is general and NOT specific in describing or trying to describe extremists in the Islamic faith or belief.

There is nothing wrong in Jihad(fighting) but the problem is killing women and children and going over the regulations described in the doctrine of "Jihad". There are various interpretations concerning the doctrine of "Jihad" and/or fighitng within the Islamic regulations. However, no interpretation allow the killing of women and children whom are defenseless.

The ONLY time that women and children are allowed to be fought against is when they are participating physically in battle. This interpretation is stated in the BOOK: "Al-Ahkam As-Sultaniyyah" by Abu'l Hasan al-Mawardi

He stated:

"If women and children fight, then they are fought and killed, but only face to face ,not from behind while fleeing."

Located in the section The Amirate of Jihad page 65, english edition and translation.

ISBN#: 1-897940-41-6

This scenerio explained by the author makes it clear that killing women and children is not allowed. This rule is also stated in Islamic sources. There are somethings in the book I disagree with,for instance, certain opinions in the section concerning slavery. However, he did give a good opinion concerning the only time allowed when fighting women and children.

Hypothetically, in this case when or if Israeli women are fighting alongside Israeli men then it would be allowed for the Muslim fighter to fight them. However, it would not be allowed to harm Israeli civilians through Homocide/suicide bombings or take hostages in any case or scenerio. This means that the HAMAS and others are also violating Islamic rules and regulations concerning "Jihad"(Fighting/QITAL). In this case, the Palestinians would have to concentrate in creating a state structure which would create a standing military structure. The reason is that the PLO government is just as equally corrupt as the Isreali occupiers and Israeli state structure/entity.