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Old 01-25-2006, 12:28 PM
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Default Godly fear vs. unholy fear.

FEAR, GODLY.

God is the object of. Isaiah 8:13

God is the author of. Jeremiah 32:39-40

Searching the scriptures gives understanding of. Proverbs 2:3-5

Described as...

...Hatred of Evil. Proverbs 8:13

...Wisdom. Job 28:28; Psalm 111:10

...A treasure to saints. Proverbs 15:16; Isaiah 33:6

...A fountain of life. Proverbs 14:27

...Sanctifying. Psalm 19:9

...Filial and reverential. Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:28

Commanded. Deuteronomy 13:4, Psalm 22:23; Ecclesiastes 12:13; 1 Peter 2:17

Motives to...

...The Holiness of God. Revelation 15:4

...The greatness of God. Deuteronomy 10:12; Deuteronomy 10:17

...The Goodness of God. 1 Samuel 12:24

...The forgiveness of God. Psalm 130:4

...Wondrous works of God. Joshua 4:23-24

...Judgements of God. Revelation 14:7

A characteristic of saints. Malachi 3:16

Should accompany the joy of saints. Psalm 2:11

Necessary to...

...The worship of God. Psalm 5:7, Psalm 89:7

...The service of God. Psalm 2:11; Hebrews 12:28

...Avoiding of Sin. Exodus 20:20

...Righteous government. 2 Samuel 23:3

...Impartial administration of justice. 2 Chronicles 19:6-9

...Perfecting holiness. 2 Corinthians 7:1

Those who have...

...Afford pleasure to God. Psalm 147:11

...Are pitied by God. Psalm 103:13

...Are accepted of God. Acts 10:35

...receive mercy from God. Psalm 103:11, Psalm 103:17; Luke 1:50

...Are blessed. Psalm 112:1; 115:13

...Confide in God. Psalm 115:11; Proverbs14:26

...Depart from evil. Proverbs 16:16

...Converse together of Holy things. Malachi 3:16

...Should not fear man. Isaiah 8:12-13; Matthew 10:28

...Desires of, fulfilled by God. Psalm 145:19

...Days of, prolonged. Proverbs 10:27

Should be...

...Prayed for. Psalm 86:11

...Exhibited in our callings. Colossians 3:22

...Exhibited in giving a reason for our hope. 1 Peter 3:15

...Constantly maintained. Deuteronomy 14:23; Joshua 4:24; Proverbs 23:17

...Taught to others. Psalm 34:11

Advantages of. Proverbs 15:16; Proverbs 19:23; Ecclesiastes 8:12-13

The wicked destitute of. Psalm 36:1; Proverbs 1:29; Jeremiah 2:19; Romans 3:18

Exemplified...

...Abraham. Genesis 22:12

...Joseph. Genesis 39:9; Genesis 42:18

...Obadiah. 1 Kings 18:12

...Nehemiah. Nehemiah 5:15

...Job. Job 1:1, Job 1:8

...Christians. Acts 9:31

...Cornelius. Acts 10:2

...Noah. Hebrews 11:7



FEAR, UNHOLY

A Characteristic of the wicked. Revelation 21:8

Is described as...

...A fear of idols. 2 Kings 17:38

...A fear of man. 1 Samuel 15:24; John 9:22

...A fear of judgements. Isaiah 2:19; Luke 21:26; Revelation 6:16-17

...A fear of future punishment. Hebrews 10:27

...Overwhelming. Exodus 15:16; Job 15:21, Job 15:24

...Consuming. Psalm 73:19

A guilty conscience leads to. Genesis 3:8, Genesis 3:10; Psalm 53:5; Proverbs 28:1

Seizes the wicked. Job 15:24; Job 18:11

Surprises the hypocrite. Isaiah 33:14, Isaiah 33:18

The wicked judicially filled with. Leviticus 26:16-17; Deuteronomy 28:65-67; Jeremiah 49:5

Shall be realised. Proverbs 1:27; Proverbs 10:24

God mocks. Proverbs 1:26

Saint sometimes tempted to. Psalm 55:5

Saints delivered from. Proverbs 1:33; Isaiah 14:3

Trust in God, a preservative from. Psalm 27:1

Exhortations against. Isaiah 8:12; John 14:27

Exemplified...

...Adam. Genesis 3:10

...Cain. Genesis 4:14

...Midianites. Judges 7:21-22

...Philistines. 1 Samuel 14:15

...Saul. 1 Samuel 28:5, 1 Samuel 28:20

...Adonijah's guests. 1 Kings 1:49

...Haman. Esther 7:6

...Ahaz. Isaiah 7:2

...Belshazzar. Daniel 5:6

...Pilate. John 19:8

...Felix. Acts 24:25
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:36 PM
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And yet as an emotion- it's still fear. Seems to only be a difference of what you fear. But fear is not the same as respect. If God is really that scary, I'll stay away. I would figure the creator would no better than to use authoritarian parenting. The book does not do the guy justice in depicting him as such a nasty figure.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
And yet as an emotion- it's still fear. Seems to only be a difference of what you fear. But fear is not the same as respect. If God is really that scary, I'll stay away. I would figure the creator would no better than to use authoritarian parenting. The book does not do the guy justice in depicting him as such a nasty figure.
Christ wasn't even willing to use omnipotent self-defense to prevent the crucifixion. Sometimes we have to fear God to be moral, but that is far from the sole meaning of Christianity.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:31 PM
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But why not do good out of respect instead? Why does everything have to follow the abusive father in the sky model?
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:39 PM
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Well, we have to think that way, because, unfortunately, many of us (myself included) will misbehave without the fear of punishment. That is why parents have to discipline their children.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:45 PM
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Default Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
But why not do good out of respect instead? Why does everything have to follow the abusive father in the sky model?
I'm kinda wondering whether the abusive father in the sky model is a useful lie that we tell the more barbarian type of converts that may need that threat until they've accepted a certain code of morality and then when they accept the notion that thou shalt not abuse thy neighbor they learn the concept that God is love. The flip side is that others who despearately need love and acceptance right now might be introduced to the God is love concept right now. Just a theory.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:42 PM
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Default I Am Who Am needs to take his meds

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave";p=&quot View Post
FEAR, GODLY.

God is the object of. Isaiah 8:13

God is the author of. Jeremiah 32:39-40

Searching the scriptures gives understanding of. Proverbs 2:3-5

Described as...

...Hatred of Evil. Proverbs 8:13

...Wisdom. Job 28:28; Psalm 111:10

...A treasure to saints. Proverbs 15:16; Isaiah 33:6

...A fountain of life. Proverbs 14:27

...Sanctifying. Psalm 19:9

...Filial and reverential. Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:28

Commanded. Deuteronomy 13:4, Psalm 22:23; Ecclesiastes 12:13; 1 Peter 2:17

Motives to...

...The Holiness of God. Revelation 15:4

...The greatness of God. Deuteronomy 10:12; Deuteronomy 10:17

...The Goodness of God. 1 Samuel 12:24

...The forgiveness of God. Psalm 130:4

...Wondrous works of God. Joshua 4:23-24

...Judgements of God. Revelation 14:7

A characteristic of saints. Malachi 3:16

Should accompany the joy of saints. Psalm 2:11

Necessary to...

...The worship of God. Psalm 5:7, Psalm 89:7

...The service of God. Psalm 2:11; Hebrews 12:28

...Avoiding of Sin. Exodus 20:20

...Righteous government. 2 Samuel 23:3

...Impartial administration of justice. 2 Chronicles 19:6-9

...Perfecting holiness. 2 Corinthians 7:1

Those who have...

...Afford pleasure to God. Psalm 147:11

...Are pitied by God. Psalm 103:13

...Are accepted of God. Acts 10:35

...receive mercy from God. Psalm 103:11, Psalm 103:17; Luke 1:50

...Are blessed. Psalm 112:1; 115:13

...Confide in God. Psalm 115:11; Proverbs14:26

...Depart from evil. Proverbs 16:16

...Converse together of Holy things. Malachi 3:16

...Should not fear man. Isaiah 8:12-13; Matthew 10:28

...Desires of, fulfilled by God. Psalm 145:19

...Days of, prolonged. Proverbs 10:27

Should be...

...Prayed for. Psalm 86:11

...Exhibited in our callings. Colossians 3:22

...Exhibited in giving a reason for our hope. 1 Peter 3:15

...Constantly maintained. Deuteronomy 14:23; Joshua 4:24; Proverbs 23:17

...Taught to others. Psalm 34:11

Advantages of. Proverbs 15:16; Proverbs 19:23; Ecclesiastes 8:12-13

The wicked destitute of. Psalm 36:1; Proverbs 1:29; Jeremiah 2:19; Romans 3:18

Exemplified...

...Abraham. Genesis 22:12

...Joseph. Genesis 39:9; Genesis 42:18

...Obadiah. 1 Kings 18:12

...Nehemiah. Nehemiah 5:15

...Job. Job 1:1, Job 1:8

...Christians. Acts 9:31

...Cornelius. Acts 10:2

...Noah. Hebrews 11:7



FEAR, UNHOLY

A Characteristic of the wicked. Revelation 21:8

Is described as...

...A fear of idols. 2 Kings 17:38

...A fear of man. 1 Samuel 15:24; John 9:22

...A fear of judgements. Isaiah 2:19; Luke 21:26; Revelation 6:16-17

...A fear of future punishment. Hebrews 10:27

...Overwhelming. Exodus 15:16; Job 15:21, Job 15:24

...Consuming. Psalm 73:19

A guilty conscience leads to. Genesis 3:8, Genesis 3:10; Psalm 53:5; Proverbs 28:1

Seizes the wicked. Job 15:24; Job 18:11

Surprises the hypocrite. Isaiah 33:14, Isaiah 33:18

The wicked judicially filled with. Leviticus 26:16-17; Deuteronomy 28:65-67; Jeremiah 49:5

Shall be realised. Proverbs 1:27; Proverbs 10:24

God mocks. Proverbs 1:26

Saint sometimes tempted to. Psalm 55:5

Saints delivered from. Proverbs 1:33; Isaiah 14:3

Trust in God, a preservative from. Psalm 27:1

Exhortations against. Isaiah 8:12; John 14:27

Exemplified...

...Adam. Genesis 3:10

...Cain. Genesis 4:14

...Midianites. Judges 7:21-22

...Philistines. 1 Samuel 14:15

...Saul. 1 Samuel 28:5, 1 Samuel 28:20

...Adonijah's guests. 1 Kings 1:49

...Haman. Esther 7:6

...Ahaz. Isaiah 7:2

...Belshazzar. Daniel 5:6

...Pilate. John 19:8

...Felix. Acts 24:25
And then there's Genesis...
Quote:
34:24 And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city. (34:24-29) "Every male was circumcised. And ... when they were sore ... the sons of Jacob ... slew all the males."
The sons of Jacob trick Shechem into getting circumcised. Then they murder him, his sons, and all the males of the city, while taking their wives captive.
34:25 And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
34:26 And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went out. Simeon and Levi slew Hamos and Shcekem
Gerard Hoet, 1648-1733
34:27 The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister.
34:28 They took their sheep, and their oxen, and their asses, and that which was in the city, and that which was in the field,
34:29 And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that was in the house.
34:30 And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house.
34:31 And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:52 PM
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I'm not a Fundamentalist (though I think Dave is), so I think that there is human error in the Bible. However, nowhere in Genesis 34 is God portrayed God as ordering those atrocities. Much of the Old Testament is just a historical record, and parts of it, especially the earliest chapters of Genesis, are more error than truth. Here is a link to Genesis 34 (KJV):

http://www.bible-history.com/kjv/Genesis/34/
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Old 01-26-2006, 04:20 AM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceoftheTruth";p=&quot View Post
I'm not a Fundamentalist (though I think Dave is), so I think that there is human error in the Bible. However, nowhere in Genesis 34 is God portrayed God as ordering those atrocities. Much of the Old Testament is just a historical record, and parts of it, especially the earliest chapters of Genesis, are more error than truth. Here is a link to Genesis 34 (KJV):

http://www.bible-history.com/kjv/Genesis/34/
Moreover, in Genesis 34, Shechem raped Dinah, the daughter of Jacob. How the heck can people blame the sons of Jacob for killing him?
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
But why not do good out of respect instead? Why does everything have to follow the abusive father in the sky model?
I agree, people just need to remember the golden rule.
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