Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Religion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2006, 08:24 PM
foundit66's Avatar
foundit66 foundit66 is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 194
foundit66 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,778
Default The *War* on Christianity...

War, what is it good for?

If you listen to some conservative evangelicals these days, we are all standing in the middle of the battlefield of a great war. The War on Terrorism you say? Nope. Bigger. It’s the War on Christians. Whose side are you on?

A recent conference sponsored by Vision America entitled, “The War on Christians and The Values Voter in 2006,” and another event, “Justice Sunday III” sponsored by Focus on the Family Action, have once again shown that some conservative Christians revel in their role as victims.

Some Christian leaders have stepped out of both appropriate and rational bounds in their attempt to label the current state of play in the United States a war.

It’s inaccurate and borderline offensive to equate the current “struggle” of Christians to African-Americans during the civil rights era, the plight of Jews during the Holocaust, and even the suffering of Jesus Christ himself on the cross. But that’s what this particular group of Christians has done recently.

During “Justice Sunday III” back on January 8, evangelical leaders like Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council sang “We Shall Overcome,” along with the congregation in attendance, drawing a comparison with blacks a half-century ago.

But back in the 1950s and 1960s, African-Americans were struggling to gain full voting rights, to use whatever bathroom they wanted, and to sit in a seat of their own choosing on a city bus. In comparison with today, Christians certainly have voting rights and even patted themselves on the back for reelecting a Republican president and electing majorities in both the House and the Senate.

During this week’s War on Christians event, conservative author Michael Horowitz, who is Jewish, said, “You guys have become the Jews of the 21st Century.” What? Some Christians may not like the moral direction of this country, but no one in the United States is being killed or sent to a concentration camp because they are a Christian.

Also during the conference, Vision America President Rick Scarborough introduced former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay ®, stating, “I believe the most damaging thing that Tom DeLay has done in his life is take his faith seriously into public office, which made him a target for all those who despise the cause of Christ.” I don’t seem to recall DeLay’s indictments or admonishments by the House Ethics Committee involving an account of his faith. And did almost 40% of Republican primary voters in DeLay’s own congressional district this spring vote against him because he was a Christian?
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...31/191857.html

The political / Christian religious right (as in further right than just 'right') are giving the rest of Christianity a bad image...
__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:04 PM
ForceoftheTruth's Avatar
ForceoftheTruth ForceoftheTruth is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,897
ForceoftheTruth is on a distinguished road
Credits: 42,788
Default Agreed

I am a Christian, and I have two motivations for wanting the Christian Right to shut up. First, most of what they say is completely wrong. Second, when they are correct about an issue, they manage to make themselves look wrong. I'm pro-life, and while I can't prove it statistically, I think that people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the like manage to turn a substantial percentage of Americans away from the pro-life movement.
__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:23 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 13,990
usa us michigan
JavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant futureJavaBlack has a brilliant future
Credits: 93,607
Default ......

The problem as I can figure it is two-fold:
1) The perception of persecution is relative. For the majority group, it feels like any loss of privelage is something being taken for another's gain. Often the question of whether this is true or not has little to do with the perception. In the case of Christians, they are seeing the control they have enjoyed over the country loosened. Many fail to understand that the control they've had inherently limits the freedom of minorities. Whites acted the same way when slaves were freed. Majority life gets people used to privelage. Removal of privelages resembles persecution. On the other hand, most minorities would never understand their own persecution if they were not educated in the ways of the majority. Look at Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Educated. The likelihood, I think, if we actually looked into the real Jesus as opposed to his mythic carpenter personna, we'd find he was well-educated. Part of the reason "traditional" Christians are losing their vice-like grip over all public life is because more and more other people are becoming educated and learning how to level the playing field. The only way for the traditional elites to regain control is to overtly deny this- but it's too late now. Thankfully I believe most Christians would rather see fairness in society and run their own lives as Christians. This outspoken minority of Christians is really a bunch of theocrats who want to paint a friendly face. Ironically it is the tolerance and cultural relativism they despise so much that will ensure that we have to hear them complain from time to time.
2) Christianity is loaded with stories of persecution and even explicitly says from time to time that Christians will be persecuted. Before they conquered Rome, the Christian philosophy was strongly influenced through a time of persecution. And then of course Paul wrote a lot of notes telling his followers that they would be persecuted and how to survive it- which some people take today as still being relevant. Then there's the book of Revelations. The trouble is that a devout enough and crazy enough Christian will want to feel persecuted in order to feel salvation. We're seeing quite a few of them out in the open. And unfortunately many are buying it.

The irony is that there doesn't seem to me to be much empathy in this philosophy, which I've always taken to be the main foundation of Christ's philosophy. Oh well. Crazy people are fun as long as they stay a fringe goup.
__________________
"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2006, 10:25 AM
ForceoftheTruth's Avatar
ForceoftheTruth ForceoftheTruth is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,897
ForceoftheTruth is on a distinguished road
Credits: 42,788
Default .

If you think the above is bad, read these quotes from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson:

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers . . . AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." (Jerry Falwell)

"His message of peace and reconciliation under almost all circumstances is simply incompatible with Christian teachings as I interpret them. This 'turn the other cheek' business is all well and good but it's not what Jesus fought and died for. What we need to do is take the battle to the Muslim heathens and do unto them before they do unto us." (Jerry Falwell, referring to Jimmy Carter)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell

"If Christian people work together, they can succeed during this decade in winning back control of the institutions that have been taken from them over the past 70 years. Expect confrontations that will be not only unpleasant but at times physically bloody.... This decade will not be for the faint of heart, but the resolute. Institutions will be plunged into wrenching change. We will be living through one of the most tumultuous periods of human history. When it is over, I am convinced God's people will emerge victorious." (Pat Robertson)

'We have a court that has essentially stuck its finger in God's eye. We have insulted God at the highest levels of our government. Then, we say, "Why does this happen?" It is happening because God Almighty is lifting His protection from us.' (Pat Robertson, referring to September 11th)

"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them." (Pat Robertson)

"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our] institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation." (Pat Robertson)

"God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them." (Pat Robertson)

"Many of those people involved with Adolf Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together." (Pat Robertson)

"I think we ought to close Halloween down. Do you want your children to dress up as witches? The Druids used to dress up like this when they were doing human sacrifice... [Your children] are acting out Satanic rituals and participating in it, and don't even realize it." (Pat Robertson)

"How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?" (Pat Robertson)

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/revpat.htm

Feel free to check the accuracy of those quotes, but at any rate they generally reflect the thinking of these "ministers". So I am a Christian, but not on the "Christian" Right.
__________________
"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2006, 05:47 PM
foundit66's Avatar
foundit66 foundit66 is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 194
foundit66 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 2,778
Default Survey: Few Outside Christianity Have Positive View of Evang

Survey: Few Outside Christianity Have Positive View of Evangelicals
Researcher Says Believers Perceived as 'Not Particularly Loving'
By Allie Martin
December 6, 2002

(AgapePress) - A new survey shows that adults with no connection to the Christian faith have low opinions of evangelicals. The researcher who conducted the study believes that may be one reason why churches are not growing.

The Barna survey asked respondents how they felt about evangelicals, born-again Christians, ministers, and other types of people. According to the survey, evangelicals came in tenth out of eleven, trailing lesbians and lawyers but beating out prostitutes.

George Barna, president of the Barna Research Group, says evangelicals have a lot of work to do to overcome such an image.

"We may not be 'evil' people, we may not be 'bad' people -- we may be completely loving and wonderful. But somehow we are being perceived by non-Christians in America as a group of people who are not particularly loving [and] not particularly generous, kind, or understanding," Barna says.

"Whether that's because the media portray evangelicals in a negative light or because we've earned that 'badge of dishonor,' if you will, we've got to figure that out -- and then we have to address that."

Barna says evangelicals have an opportunity to reverse the negative public opinion: through the way they live their lives. "We're not going to have many opportunities to have meaningful interaction on a spiritual level with people outside the Christian faith until they can look at us and say, 'You know what? These people live what they talk,'" he says.

The survey also found the more highly educated a person without a Christian connection is, the less likely he or she is to have a positive impression of Christians. The only group that received a favorable response from the non-Christian respondents was military officers.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/arch...afa/62002a.asp
__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden