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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2006, 06:17 PM
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Seems to me, we have some liberal Muslims in the crowd.

Tell me something please - where do you learn your "interpretations" of the Quran? Is it something you read and determine for yourself, or is it something that you primarily learn in the mosque? If the latter, are there group-type discussions or are you primarily listening to the wisdom of an imam?
I got the idea about the prophets from reading Allamah Nooruddin's translation of the Quran. After that I did some study and figured it made sense considering that most religions have the same goals, values, and teachings.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2006, 06:30 PM
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I have to hold Americans responsible for blindly hating us instead of studying before acting; an example is that many people still refer to jihad as meaning "holy war" when it doesnt.

"Jihad" does have a broader meaning, but to translate "jihad" to "holy war" is often appropriate, depending on context. Muslims themselves will use jihad to mean holy war.
Would you like to respond to this Schwarzwald?

I notice that you have called me an idiot for not knowing what jihad means. I believe what I am saying is accurate.
Jihad comes from the Arabic phrase, "jihad fi sabee Allah" meaning "striving in God's cause." Thus, teaching, preaching about Islam, and fighting corruption or poverty can be considered jihad. If a force tries to eliminate Islam we feel it our duty to resist, even by using arms. The Quran forbids us to engage in un-provoked agression but what is and isnt a threat to Islam is open to interpretation.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 07:59 AM
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well first to nonsqtr
islam has no racism unlike judaism and christanity,in judaism u cannot become a jew and if u become one u will be treated like a second class jew and in christanity whites are given preference but in islam any one can become muslim ,rich or poor,black or white and they are given equal status

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Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other).
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #92)
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And verily this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other).
( سورة المؤمنون , Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #52)



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The Believers are but a single brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy.
( سورة الحجرات , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #10)
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But come on political, I'm trying to get you to understand something (hopefully), and please don't give up on this discussion. Somehow, it's important that we understand each other in this area. I'd like to hear more about your thinking on these topics. Please.
i respect u and would be glad to answer all your queries

and islam is actually not just a religion but to muslims it is ALLAH's religion.

and now to dial8 yes the muslims who refuse to pay zakat(compulsory tax and not charity on their wealth)have to pay it otherwise they are muslims in name only-zakath is only for rich muslims and it is a poverty eradiction programme in islam
and jihad is not violence in islam but an mechanism to protect the oppressed and stop all violence
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 08:50 AM
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Sometimes I hope that you are in Beirut right now. You sound exactly like the people America and Israel are fighting.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 09:12 AM
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sorry kaka i dont understand your last statement properly?can u elaborate?
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 10:53 AM
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Sometimes I hope that you are in Beirut right now. You sound exactly like the people America and Israel are fighting.
Try to understand, kaka100, that we're trying to bridge a cultural gap here.

Political is not the one you'd be wanting to beat back with military force.

Come on, think about it. He's reaching out halfway around the globe to have a dialog with us (as are you).

Any opportunity to have a dialog like this - should be treated with the utmost of reverence and courtesy, IMO. This stuff is precious - and it's not every day we get opportunities like this.

Self-defense is one thing, but guilt by generalization is entirely another. Cut off the head of a hydra, and two more will grow in its place. Remember that old legend?

Well, you get some leeway 'cause you're in the middle of things right now. But please, let's try to make the most of this opportunity. Please? Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2006, 11:00 AM
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and jihad is not violence in islam but an mechanism to protect the oppressed and stop all violence
The hadith I quoted seem to suggest otherwise.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 11:42 AM
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If a force tries to eliminate Islam we feel it our duty to resist, even by using arms. The Quran forbids us to engage in un-provoked agression but what is and isnt a threat to Islam is open to interpretation.
My understanding is that Islamic law requires offensive war against non-Muslims where there is a reasonable chance of success. The aim is to fight people until they (a) convert to Islam, or (b) pay the jizya tax and live under Islamic rule.

Yes, there are peaceful verses in the Quran. However, they have often been understood to have been "abrogated" or otherwise superseded. I believe that Islam has generally interpreted itself such that offensive war is required. And if you want to deny this interpretation you have something of a problem: why did Muhammad wage offensive war? Why did he threaten people into paying the jizya?

And why did the Muslims attack India? That was in self defence was it? What had the Hindu's done? Why were millions of people killed by the Muslims? Why were Hindu temples destroyed? It just doesn't seem like self defence to me...
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 11:56 AM
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If a force tries to eliminate Islam we feel it our duty to resist, even by using arms. The Quran forbids us to engage in un-provoked agression but what is and isnt a threat to Islam is open to interpretation.
My understanding is that Islamic law requires offensive war against non-Muslims where there is a reasonable chance of success. The aim is to fight people until they (a) convert to Islam, or (b) pay the jizya tax and live under Islamic rule.

Yes, there are peaceful verses in the Quran. However, they have often been understood to have been "abrogated" or otherwise superseded. I believe that Islam has generally interpreted itself such that offensive war is required. And if you want to deny this interpretation you have something of a problem: why did Muhammad wage offensive war? Why did he threaten people into paying the jizya?

And why did the Muslims attack India? That was in self defence was it? What had the Hindu's done? Why were millions of people killed by the Muslims? Why were Hindu temples destroyed? It just doesn't seem like self defence to me...
To inquire that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) ever waged offensive war is blasphemy. He only fought because the Meccan army had attacked him and his followers and he never threatened anyone. Even in current Saudi Arabia the zakat tax is voluntary. I cant take responsibility for what has happened during Indias and Pakistans fight for land, I personally think that who ever is in majority should rule it and share it with the minority. Destruction of temples, churches, and synagogues is forbidden in the Quran and any Muslim who does isnt Islamic. Culture doesnt make something Islamic, to be Islamic or to be Muslim is to do what is taught in the Quran first and fore-most.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2006, 12:10 PM
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well first to nonsqtr
islam has no racism unlike judaism and christanity,in judaism u cannot become a jew and if u become one u will be treated like a second class jew and in christanity whites are given preference but in islam any one can become muslim ,rich or poor,black or white and they are given equal status
I have to disagree in this one, polit. Its not racism in Judaism as much as its a cultural bond in the Jewish community. I spoke with a Rabbi and he says that anyone can become Jewish but they wont have the same experience as some one whos grown up in that community their entire life. Also Christianity only has the muscle it does in the US because of how many Afro-Americans there are in the Baptist congregations and the sudden boom of Afro-Americans joining the Mormon Church. Lets also not forget how much the Latino-Americans make up a majority in the Catholic Church. Christianity is very easy to access all depending on the denomonation, the same can be said for Judaism. Its true what you said about equality in Islam except for the problem of many hard-liners in the North American mosques who are going overboard in seperating the men from the women and children.
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