This is almost a tame subject considering I'm not debating a world-wide Jewish conspiracy or an Islamic conspiracy or debating Noah's flood, creation-evolution etc...

We're going to talk about this subject on the radio program this week, and I have to admit being a little unsure how exactly I'm going to say what I'm going to say. It's a good question in my opinion. I would imagine a lot of you hold more than a few opinions, too.

Now, when the writers of the Bible talked about being "free," they were usually pointing out a person was officially made "righteous" or had a good standing with God because they "believed" in Jesus Christ. They were pointing out people weren't required to follow the myriad of rules and regulations of the Law of Moses or any other religion to be in good standing with God. The rules that said you can't work on Saturdays, you have to observe these holidays and do these certain things on those holidays, every year you have to sacrifice these types of animals, etc...

This was a big change at the time for these people. For them, religion had been set free of ritualistic practices and transformed into a religion built around a relationship with Jesus Christ. They were free from the requirement of observing certain rituals.

I don't think we are talking about rituals, however, when we ask the question, "Is a Christian free?" It seems like we're really asking about whether or not we can participate in many gray areas, and whether or not we can freely sin, live how we want to, etc... -without facing eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation or something.

In this regard, I don't think a person really is free as a Christian. Some verses that apply include:

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1Co 10:23 Everything is permissible, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible, but not everything builds up.

According to the Bible, asking in the sense of justifying ourselves, or defend our right to do whatever we please, is the wrong way to look at it (for a Christian) because a Christian belongs to God. We sacrifice our desires for God, and sacrifice our wishes for the sake of others.

Or, as the Bible said:

Rom 6:22 But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.

That's the opposite of freedom isn't it? Being a slave of God? I'm simply free from the condemnation of sin or the requirement of following a huge assortment of rituals, but I'm still a slave to God.

However, here's the difference for me. God is a much nicer master than an impersonal set of rules. God knows me, understands me, knows when I need a break, and when I need to be challenged. God knows when to put the hammer down, and when to help me up and dust me off. He knows me better than I know myself.

So when Jesus promised us an "abundant life" and "rest" and that His yoke was easy and His burden was light, you get the sense that being a slave of God won't feel like slavery. It hasn't so far for me. It has felt like an adventure!

From your religion or lack of... what's your impression of how much freedom you have? And does Christianity look very freedom loving to you in your experience or opinion?

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Sure, I think Christianity is a pretty free religion today. no one will force you to obey the rules, and no Christians will abandon you as a sinner...mostly. It hadn't always been though, but that's not important anymore. The problem isn't the religion itself. Christ taught some things, and I stand by his beliefs 100%. The problem is those who control the religion and how they choose to run things.

I gave up on Christianity as a religion not because of a lack of freedom, but because of what I saw as the absurdity of it all. I loved Christ's philosophy and applied his morality to my everyday life, but left everything else behind.

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WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

. "You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

I would agree with the idea of disliking how man-made religious organizations have chose to run things. Often, denominations or religious institutions have taken part in very un-Christlike actions. -Or sometimes, non-action when they have the moral responsibility to stand up for Christ and his principles.

Denominations and official churches tend to put people in slavery to rituals again. Some churches for instance believe you can only escape the wrath of God by joining their church.

That's not only wrong, but it makes the faith look, -absurd.

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Interesting topic.

Have you investigated the authentic history of the Templars?

They held some interesting beliefs, some of which were based in the Gnostic tradition.

They were eventually persecuted during the Inquisition, at a time when the Church was trying to consolidate its political power.

Anyway, to answer your question in a sly way: the paradox of God is that ultimate freedom derives from ultimate dependence.

(Note that I didn't say "subservience" or "submission" - I chose that word "dependence" quite carefully).

In my experiences, Christianity was not free but this might be because I was not a born Christian. Christianity, thus, was not built into my nature.
It was not a draw toward sin so much... and that was not a problem for many of the born Christians I knew who would sin without guilt...
The issue of freedom was with my mind.
I had no problem with treating others as I'd like to be treated, but it was unnatural to believe in the things I was supposed to in Christianity and it made a war in my head. I also had trouble imagining that others with good morals, good people, would be consigned to Hell over it.
In the end, I gave up on Christianity and felt free to think and feel as a human, and in my opinion to feel closer to God.

But this is one thing I think you can say about religion and freedom: when you make up your mind about something that you cannot actually know, it limits what you are willing to accept and how you can adapt to it. Thus the problem biblical literalists have with evolution.
Only by keeping an open mind can you truly be free.
By this note, a stubborn atheist/materialist is also a slave.

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"Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money."

-George Carlin

It's a mixed bag. Christianity made a great moral leap forward with the reforms begun by Luther/Calvin et al. This thinking poured the foundations of Capitalism, which I believe, was more "freeing" than Feudalism. There are also elements in the current Christian tradition that support Socialism, a freeing improvement on Capitalism.
But for every religious voice for economic redistribution there are one-hundred praying against it.
You know, of course, the meaning of the Year of Jubilee?

Note: Your question employs a highly charged and ill-defined term: freedom. Its meaning is subject to great debate.

What a rediculous assesment by a rediculous atheist like yourself.

He's not an atheist.

Jesus, IMO, was one of the most radical figures in all the history of religion.

If you take all the quotes attributed directly to him (not only from the Bible, but elsewhere as well), and put them all together in one place, you'll come up with such an amazing collection of philosophy it's truly mind-boggling.

"Organized" Christianity, IMO, preaches something very different from the true message of Christ. That's not to say it's "bad", just "different".

The central concept of faith as "dependence on God", as realized by Jesus, is only one of the astouding pieces. In context, this is one of my favorite quotes attributed to him - this one comes from the Gospel of Thomas (referring to certain people who think they've "found God" because they're experiencing some state of blissfulness from their beliefs):

L. 13: Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

Other than the movies, I really haven't checked out the Templars. I'll try to do so, since I'm lacking in that area of history anyway. I like your choice of words by the way. In some ways it's a better description, and definitely one I'm going to think about for awhile. lol Dang man, that's an interesting way to put it.

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