Well, either my mother has finally lost her remaining sanity or I am, as Fundamentalists have suggested, a sorry excuse for a Christian. I've been quite upset since my mother said, this morning, that she would allow herself to be killed rather than tell a murderous, anti-Christian fanatic what they wanted to hear. I am aware that Jesus rebuked Peter in advance for three times denying him, but I am also aware that Peter was an Apostle whose chosen role in life was to follow Jesus the man, while obviously I have not been chosen for such a task. Moreover, it is worth noting that, had Peter not then denied Jesus, he would likely not have lived to spread the Christian faith as he did.
More to the point, however, it would seem a waste of a human life to let it and all of the good it could do on Earth end because of the actions of some lunatic. If I were a symbolic leader of a movement to free Christians or religious people in general from persecution and my refusal to recant was critical to the success of such a cause, I would choose death. Moreover, I would choose death over doing anything immoral. This is not what my mother was referring to, however. Simply telling a hypothetical fanatic what they wanted to hear without believing it oneself would, to her, be a betrayal of Christ. I admit that on this point I am at a loss. I was just beginning to think that this life and this world were of some real value, but if what my mother said is true, life is merely a means to an end. Moreover, I would think that God values the life He created and makes a distinction between words and beliefs and so, at worst, would consider saving ones own life the lesser of the evils in such a situation.
All of this disturbs me not because I expect to be in such a situation, since such things seldom happen in the United States, but rather because it throws me back many months in my psychological progress- back to the days when I saw this life as nothing more than a test for the next life and of no intrinsic value. Those who have posted here long enough know the depression into which such a mindset throws me. So, is my mother crazy or am I faithless? This latest incident has thrown me off balance so badly that I don't know what is right or wrong theologically or what is sane and what is insane. I appreciate all advice. Thank you very much.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

You will probably not spiral down to where you've been. Your cognition has rendered a very useful analysis.
Your mother seems prone to dramatics. Her feelings of this theoretical situation may have been unconsciously meant to re-engage your codependent neurosis.
You have transcended the problem.
Congrats.

i actually respect your mom's choice to live with out compromise rorschach style yeah but i dont think your opinion makes you faithless in any way and while i can kinda see life nothin but a test thing as long as you enjoy living at one point or another it's not so it's all good

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In a free society, the government's job is simply to protect liberty- the people do the rest.

Well, the subject came up (indirectly) because I stated that I considered the American prison system Draconian in some of its sentences. Specifically, I mentioned that I thought it absurd that all corporal punishment (which I do not advocate) is considered "cruel and unusual" while locking someone up for years is not. Without condoning corporal punishment in any way, I stated that I thought the latter was worse and that I would prefer the former. My mother was very upset by what I had said, and made a point of telling me about the potential for reform in prison, mentioning among other things prison ministries.
As is often the case because of my short temper, our discussion became an argument. My mother then became quite upset because my father has consistently told my mother to avoid all quarrels with me, but she explained that her conscience compelled her to discuss the matter even at the risk of my anger. She likened her dilemma to that of Christians told to deny Christ under duress and the conversation became, at least to my perception, stranger from there. I may have devised an alternative to her viewpoint, but all of this is still disturbing in one of two ways: Either my mother, on whom I have, perhaps, an excessive emotional dependency, is losing it mentally or I'm incorrect in calling myself a Christian. It is also disturbing that I can't figure out which is the case.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

First of all, Force, if you believe Christ died for your sins, you are a Christian. That's it. You would never think that all Christians must agree on everything, would you?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the dilemma. I got the impression that you were talking a scenario in which a lunatic was holding a gun to your head and all you had to do to live was say you didn't believe in Christ. It's happened recently. Remember the FOX newsmen who were kidnapped? They both "became Muslim", but only by words. Given their dilemma, I probably would have done the same thing. I would think about my family and do anything I could to be with them again. If they hadn't said what they said, they would have been dead and no one would ever know of their heroic faith. I wouldn't worry about disagreeing on this.

Many Christians are against the death penalty because they believe the dead guy will go straight to hell with no chance at redemption. I haven't found that in the Bible. I have seen "the second death" though. I have a nonchalant attitude about life/death in a way, not that I don't grieve at loss or want to live a long time. But as far as what happens to someone after death, I can say, "it's in God's perfectly capable hands" and leave it at that.

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Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt

To apotropoxy and The12thMan: I thank both of you for your advice. It is very wise and was very badly needed. I really, really needed advice from a neutral source. You've cleared up the problem for me. Thank you so much.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

You are far stronger now than you were a year ago.
As we like to say in Austin: Onward Through The Fog!

It is obvious that your Mother holds a strong belief in God and has passed much of this on to you.

I'm guessing your under 25 and therefore your in the time of turmoil when we form our own personality and challenge some of the ideas that we have been brought up with. (if your over 25, this still continues through out your life, its just you tend to avoid conversations that anoy parents)

In the end, I personally don't think its important if you are or are not a christian in the eyes of anyone but yourself. If you think you are then you are. How you worship your God is entirely up to you.


But you probably shouldn't listen to me as I'm a godless atheist. Although at one time I would called myself a Christian and now dont reject all the teachings that jesus brought us. I just dont belive in a god or an afterlife.
Atheism gives me the freedom to listen to the parts of other religious and philosophical teachings and choose those things that I feel help humanity and myself. without the dogma of religouis blindness.

You mentioned you worried that life had no meaning. Life has all the meaning you wish to place on it. You get out what you put in. But waiting for the "next" life I think just means you waste what you could have done in this one.

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http://www.arts-fine.co.uk

I think the solution to the dilemma is in the Old Testament... the part about a time for this, a time for that. Sometimes making the ultimate sacrifice is worth it. Other times it is a waste and only keeps you from doing further good in the world.

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"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III

Those are some of the most brilliant words ever said.

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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V