Why do the people actually believe in imaginary men who live in the sky and keep a list of who is naughty and nice and brings good little boys and girls presents on Christmas morning.....wait a minute, is that God or Santa Claus? (*)(*)(*)(*), I always get those two mixed up.
Well, my question is why do people believe in those fairy tales anyway. My father was a holliness minister and I tried believing and praying to Santa-Jesus for 16 years before I realized it was EDIT.
I am now a 33 yr. old wife and mother of a 13yr. old daughter and it will be a cold day in hell before I put my child through the crap I was put through growing up. She was raised on science and facts not fear and stupidity.
I put out the call 10 yrs. ago for anyone to prove to me that there is a God and no one has done so yet. The call is still open!

I'm interested, what did your parents teach you?

And no I don't believe in Santa Clause, which in fact was made up by pagans not Christians.

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“Good leaders abhor wrongdoing of all kinds; sound leadership has a moral foundation.”

-Proverbs 16:12

My father was a minister. We went to church at least 3 to 4 times a week and I have read the bible countless times. Reading the bible was one of the things that made me not believe in a God. There are so many contradictions and absolutely terrible things in it that I knew just were not true. I was so afraid of the things that I was taught in church and by my father that it took me until I was 16 to realize that I was allowed not to believe and to think for myself.
And as far as Santa being made up by pagans and not Christians that is all well and fine but it still a fact that it is just plain sad and pathetic to put your life in the hands of imaginary beings. I know right from wrong and am more than capable of teaching my child this without threatning her with Hell and fire and brimstone. My daughter has won awards at school for her politness and friendliness. She would never open her mouth to say anything negative about anyone yet she has NEVER set foot in a church.
Christians think to be moral and good you have to have the same beliefs as they do. I am proving them wrong!

"God is Santa Clause for adults"

Man you love to dish out mis-information, don't you?

Santa Claus has deep-rooted Christian origins. In fact, the Christian origin of the mythical gift-giver, is St. Nicholas, Bishop of Myra. This tie to Christianity dates all the way back to the year 270 AD. That's a pretty old tradition, if you ask me.

Of course, there are influences from German, Dutch, and Nordic folklore. (Possibly more) Generally, the imagery associated with Santa Claus is unique by country and culture. The Germanic version came from Odin, the Wanderer from German folklore. In one respect, you are correct. Odin was a pagan god of mythology.

However, Christianity does have its own version of Santa Claus, just like many other countries have their respective holiday figures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

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Blind acceptance is a dangerous practice.

I must have been misinformed. Interesting though, thanks for the information.

__________________
“Good leaders abhor wrongdoing of all kinds; sound leadership has a moral foundation.”

-Proverbs 16:12

Well, I can understand your anger. It's mostly at yourself, am I right? There's a rock'n'roll band, called "Dream Theater", that has a beautiful song about this - it's called "Hollow Years". Part of the lyrics go something like this:


Once the stone
You're crawling under
Is lifted off your shoulders
Once the cloud that's raining
Over your head disappears
The noise that you'll hear
Is the crashing down of hollow years


Anyhoo..... I'm not really sure how to respond to your post, except to say two things:

a) the existence of God can not be proven or disproven. It is a matter of faith. You either believe or you don't. "Belief", in this case, has certain consequences - but they key question is: "belief in what, exactly"? 'Cause I submit, that everyone and their brother has a different "imagination" about what God is all about - you know, ranging from an old man in the sky with a long white beard, to some kind of "universal energy", or..... What I mean is, you are free to choose a God of your own understanding, are you not? Because, I submit, that it's pointless to go after a God of "other peoples'" understanding. Am I right? At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the relationship between you and God, 'cause all the rest of that crap, is just "people", trying to foist their opinions on you.

b) if I were you, and if I had a similar response to my Christian upbringing, I would think very carefully before I posed the choice to my daughter in the terms you posted here. In my eyes, there is not a choice between religion and science. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can strictly adhere to the scientific method, and still have faith. The important question though, is faith in what - because, for instance, you can put your faith in the "words" of the Bible, but if you do, I'd suggest that your faith is misplaced - because those words, are a human creation (I mean, it may be the "word of God", but it's "as translated by man", and it's that latter part where the inaccuracies arise, right? ) -

So I would propose this alternative perspective for you to consider - why would I want to deprive my daughter of the ability to reach her own conclusion, about the relationship between faith and science?

Because, think about it in these terms - a religious experience can be a wonderful thing. It's what happens after that, that can sour you on the whole piece - I mean, 'cause that's when you get into the "implementation" of religion "here on earth" - and the minute you do that, you're in an "earthly" domain, dealing with all the "earthly" imperfections, and the "earthly" people that are still confused about why God created 'em that way if all they're going to do is bicker and fight -

But if you hammer into your kid from a very young age, this idea that there's some kind of "incompatibility" between faith and science - well, it seems to me, that this has just about as much truth to it, as Santa Claus.

Think about it.

haha

nonsqtr has some interesting and valid points.

There are countless organized religions throughout the world as I'm sure you know. But if you ask anyone, I think that they would agree that faith is very personal, whether or not you are part of an organized group. As someone who seems to require empirical evidence, it's hard for religion to make a strong case, because in reality, there is no data to support the existence or non-existence of a creator. Faith is difficult to understand. Why would someone choose to believe in something that cannot be proven? Why would they just take someone's word for it? Well, I personally think that there is a part of human nature that wants to believe in the unknown. Whether you believe in a creator, or little green men, it's all based on faith since we have no means to prove it. I do agree that it can be frustrating. Just imagine - this is why so many people struggle with defining what it is that they believe in... because faith requires fidelity without cause. No one is forcing you to believe, there's certainly nothing telling you that what you believe in is real, but you choose to believe. A very unique and unusual concept.

The hard part is coming to terms with what you believe in. How does one decide what kind of creator or deity to put faith in? That, my friend, can take a lifetime to figure out. And after that lifetime is up, you may decide that you don't believe in anything but the science - and that's fine too. Remember, faith is unique to the individual, so there can be no "right" or "wrong" as to what you choose to believe in. We are all trying to figure out the same things; we just go about it in different ways.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with nonsqtr. You are free to decide what you put your faith in, and I would suggest you afford your daughter the same opportunity. Good luck!

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Blind acceptance is a dangerous practice.

Both rwking and nonsqtr have stolen my "thunder". May I add my 2 cents? Having religion forced on you is a rough road. Sharing in a loving and compassionate manner; as Jesus Christ does, is the best manner to help teach anyone about such a complex subject as love, faith, God, Satan.
A quick point here, the most powerful weapon Satan has is having people not believe in him, stealth so to speak. Just think of the severe damage that could be done.
I am sorry to hear that you were is such a forced situation. I am sure it was out of love for you, but people, parents try too hard many times well being as they may be. That is one of my many faults too. I am trying to mellow as I approach 55.
I would say you never know what may happen in the future. You sound as if you've made up your mind and heart with this "final" choice. No, I cannot prove; using our 5 senses, that God exisits. You cannot prove the God does not exist. The best I can do is ask you this; where does love come from, where and how do we know what is right or wrong; i.e. murder? Did some person just one day say "hey murder is wrong" and the whole human race now knows that? How do we know these things? And if some person said them, who the heck are they to tell me what is right or wrong; afterall they are no better than I, right?
I submit that God tells us these things. As unique as each person is, Gods (Jesus Christs) living relationship with us is as unique as each of us is and also interwoven through all of humanity is the love and laws bonding us together.
I hope that you can someday open your heart again and seek the love and salvation of Jesus Christ.
I was told this many years ago, the difference between every other religion in the world and having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is every other religion is mankind trying to earn their way to Heaven (if you believe in it) through good thoughts, acts, words and deeds and a relationship with Jesus is God finding mankind again through His Son Jesus Christ who willingly gave His life, dying for all our sins so that we may have eternal life.
Who is perfect enough, good enough to earn their way to Heaven? No one. It is a free gift and a free choice each person has, to believe or not and accept the perfect gift of salvation from Jesus Christ. It should not be forced on anyone.
I hope you make the right choice and allow your children the same freedom.

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Christian, moderate conservative, willing to consider other points of view and compromise when appropriate.

My daughter has been to church countless times with friends and family and she is free to believe whatever she wants. I am not going to force my ideas on her but I do feel children should be tought the facts of mant different religions and belief systems and then let to make their own decisions. They should not me force fed one idealogy from birth until they are too brainwashed to think for themselves. She is a wonderful child and whatever she chooses, I will support her.
As far as I am concerned I do have faith in a lot of things. I just refuse to have BLIND faith. I prefer to keep my eyes wide open.

I do have question for anyone who believes in a kind, loving God! My daughter is 13 but is developmentally delayed. She functions on the level of a 9yr. old. She is very much loved by everyone who knows her. She loves everyone and is very sweet and caring.
Last month an 18 yr. old from our neighborhhod lured her into an abandoned warehouse and raped her. The police were informed imediately but he still has not been arrested. The DA keeps giving us the run around and is basically ignoring us.
My question is, where was the loving God when my child was being raped. Where is he now when she is afraid even to go outside alone and has constent nightmares.
The only thing keeping her going is the love and support of her friends and teachers. There was no God there to help her and I truly wish was.

Wow. Well, that's surely a horrific experience, or set of experiences - what can I say? I hope your daughter and family will be able to come to terms with this, it must be a very painful thing and I wish you all the best in terms of recovery -

Um... I wanna be kinda "direct" in how I say this, 'cause I mean, this is something very serious we're talking about.

I suppose I could start, with the concept that "blaming God" for everything that happens, is kinda the same thing as "ascribing everything that happens to God".

You know, I'm not sure God works that way - you know, "intervening directly" on behalf of human beings. I mean, it seems to me, that God works more through "natural laws" and things like that.

Or let's put it this way - I have never personally witnessed, an event where I can say with certainty that God has intervened directly in human affairs.

On the other hand, I see the constraints of natural laws, every minute of every day.

So I mean, this "love" concept.... that's kinda of an "attribution", and not an entirely accurate one at that. 'Cause I mean, that's not exactly the same kind of "love" - you know, they've got 17 different words for that in Chinese, and each of 'em have a particular nuance of meaning, but there's only one in English, and it means "all" of those things.

But I mean, as near as "I" understand it, it's kind of a "respectful" love - in other words, God's gonna let you make your own choices, and live your own life, and experience your own pluses and minuses in that regard - 'cause "otherwise", it would be a "smothering" kind of love, and I mean, that surely must be a tough call when your daughter's well-being is at stake, but all I can tell you is, there's gotta be "meaning" in it somewhere -

You know, someday, somehow, you're gonna find out "why" such a thing had to happen - and you know, maybe it's a deep and profound reason, or maybe it has something to do with, you know, the experience that caused your daughter to want to help people and she'll become another saint like a Mother Teresa or someone - I mean, there are all kinds of possibilities, right? You just don't know - "yet".

And that, is part of "faith" - and I mean, it can be maddeningly frustrating sometimes - not to mention the "sadness and anger" part - but I "think", if I'm not mistaken, this is kinda what people mean when they ask the question "how strong is your faith"?

"Personally", if it were me, Id probably "take steps", For sure I'd make sure my daughter gets counseling, and then I'd start calling newpapers about that DA, that's the kinda thing they don't like to prosecute 'cause developmentally disabled kids make poor witnesses on the stand, but I mean, publicity is probably one of your best weapons in that regard - especially if you know who the perp is, then you can do some real damage if you really want to. Plus there's civil action, you can probebly sue that guy for everything he'll ever make in his entire lifetime, assuming you've got airtight proof that it was him that did it. So I mean, "politically", I'd be totally merciless in a situation like that. "Personally", I'd be trying to bring all the "comfort" I could into the world, for my daughter and my family.

Statutory rape is no joke though, I mean, if that kid gets convicted, he's gonna be labeled a "sex offender" for the rest of his life, and he's not gonna be able to go anywhere without people knowing about it - so, um.... that's just something to keep in the back of your mind. 18 years old - you know, I never raped anyone, but um... I did some kinda crazy stuff when I was 18, and in some regards you could probably say that "I didn't know what I was doing" sometimes, so.... you know, "God" is good for stuff like that - when you need a reason to forgive someone.

Once again, I with the best for you and your family, and I hope that you'll find the answers you're looking for.