I consider myself to be an atheist and a Christian/a bunch of things. I went to church for the first in a while yesterday and herd a pretty good sermon. It talked about the movie "The Golden Compass" which was apparently written to get children to stop believing in God, and after reading about it that seems to be very accurate. But that was besides the point, the point was to show how belief in god is either black or white, yay or nay. I've had this double-think problem ever since I started reading books, and my brain got a little bigger(thus I blame books and the quest for intelligence for my (*)(*)(*)(*)ation to hell if in fact there is a hell and I end up in it). The sermon made me really think about my beliefs and question myself even more. I pretty much believed up until yesterday that I would be judged on how I lived my life and how I treated the things that passed through my life. I think I do a decent job of that stuff certainly better than many of my friends who so hypocritically call themselves Christians. But thats not the way it is; is it? It says pretty clearly in the bible that you either believe or you don't and that is what the majority of your judgment rests upon. SO what I'm thinking is If I died today... then I'll go to hell, even if I had lived a far more righteous life than my peers who believe and sin knowingly because they can just ask for forgiveness after words.
This is where I find my complex would a fair and just God (*)(*)(*)(*) a good man to hell. Why should we only be "good" because if we are we will get something in the end, or because someone(God) is watching. It seems to me the better man would be the man who is "good" without expecting a reward in the end or does the "right" thing even when no one is watching. Which is why I find Buddhism appealing. They say the belief in god is irrelevant. This is why I find the whole religious thing to be difficult.
One question unrelated to the above for true believers: Do you feel like there is someone with you all the time or do you still feel alone.

comments, answers, opinions, advice, theory's...

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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V

I've said the same thing in a different way several times, to whit:

I don't believe that a God worth worshiping would play shell games with people's souls.

If God does that, He does not deserve worship whether He exists or not.

If a church claims that God works that way, then they are either distorting the picture of God or else representing a God I refuse to worship. Either way, that church does not deserve support.

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Man up.

I've seen two ways that people who don't believe justify it. They often give God human characteristics, thus their version of God is neither omniscient or omnipotent. More often, they tend to suggest that their way of thinking is an improvement over God's way - "If I was God, no children would be hungry."

We go through life judging people. Even if we think we don't, we do it everyday. We are right, everyone else is wrong. That omniscience thing would surely come in handy. Once you separate God from human characteristics, it gets easier to understand. We rage at injustice. Undeserved suffering. A child molester lives a long "happy" life, and we just can't stand it. How could a good God let this man go? We'd like to nail the guy's balls to a tree stump and set it on fire. Our version of justice... well, mine anyway. Oh, and here is a man who worked hard, supported his family, never even raised his voice in anger, what about him? (*)(*)(*)(*)ation for eternity? Oh brother, what couldn't we do if we just had omniscience and omnipotence! We could make Osama fall into an ant bed and not be able to get out. We could even control who got born in the first place. Hitler and Osama never even existed. Now we're getting somewhere.

Cut somebody off on the freeway? Four flat tires! HAHA! What fun! Don't give your blinker? Your radio will only pick up Lawrence Welk! I'd get rid of hyenas too. I just hate hyenas. Bring back unicorns. While I'm at it, I'll make chocolate healthy without changing the taste. Strawberries could grow all year wherever I happen to live.

People talk a lot about faith, hope (from the Greek word elpis - actually means certainty), and love. We often forget all about TRUST. Magnificent thing, TRUST. Quite powerful.

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.

What do you believe about the final destinations of people of other faiths?

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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V

I am amazingly incurious. I have absolute trust that each person will be judged perfectly. I don't know where it comes from. I was about 10 or so when my evil great uncle died. I remember a feeling of peace that only a child can have. I don't know if he had a painful death or anything except that I had peace. I just knew that his judgment was perfect.

I think many people don't want to believe in a higher power because they see it as an obligation. I've known people who "tested" God - answer this prayer or you don't exist kind of thing. Some people just want proof. But, you can't prove it's snowing to a blind man. He has to go outside and hear it and feel it for himself. I'm reminded of a wonderful line from "The Santa Clause". "Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing."

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.

Well, .... it depends.

That is true, at one level. Because, belief in God, is a matter of faith, and that's one of those things, that either you have, or you don't. There's really no such thing as "I kinda sorta have it" - it's like, if that's your feeling, then you don't. And that's okay, it just means "yet", right?

Ooh... a sinner.... you have tasted of the fruit of the tree of knowledge,,,, you're (*)(*)(*)(*)ed for all time....

I wouldn't worry too much about your "judgement". That's all "after the fact", right? Just try to do the best you can "right now", that's "sufficient". If you do that, you won't have anything to worry about "come judgement time", or whatever.

In Christianity, salvation comes only through the belief. Works mean relatively nothing (except that "faith without works is dead", and I mean, dead faith is just that, it doesn't mean you don't get saved, it just means you're squandering your opportunity to do something useful with your wonderful gift, while you're here on earth).

In Buddhism, "salvation" means something different entirely. It's a whole different concept. Same word "in English", but a totally different meaning.

Some "one" with me? Nah, I don't have "imaginary friends", I've been around on this planet a little too long for that kind of thing.

If you ask the question a different way though, I might respond differently.

Like, do I have any sense of the presence of a "universal energy" as I go about my daily life? Hmm.... that, I'd have to think about for a while, and I probably couldn't respond to it in one sentence either.

Agreed. One question, though (besides the "which god" or "which version of God?" biggie), is what has God done to deserve trust?

That's a question each individual must answer for themselves. Which is why I consider myself unable to judge a believer's faith: their experience of the world and God is different from mine. I can only judge them by their actions.

If God exists, he hasn't bothered revealing himself to me. Sure, you can make the argument that I'm just not looking, or am unwilling to see, but IMO that's mostly condescending sophistry. I've looked for and thought about God and belief and religion. I'm not agnostic because I'm ignorant, or stubborn, or selfish.

Trust is great if you have it. I can't trust something I'm not even sure exists.

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Man up.

With schizophrenia you're never alone, wherever I go--there I am.

Go with your gut, Locke, look around at the Universe we live in, look at the amzing complexity of life and the interactions of all the different components. The God who created this had His act together, He will not do the dumb stuff attributed to Him by the Bible. The Bible is an attempt at social engineering. Some of the teachings of that Jesus guy are good, but most of the rest of it is boilerplate.

Get some perspective on the Bible by reading about its history. THE BIBLE WITH SOURCES REVEALED by Richard Elliott Friedman will show you that the stories in the Bible were taken from many earlier religious traditions. THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING SON OF MAN by Robert M. Price will walk you through the lack of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus (which in no way invalidates the good teachings that are attributed to Him). And finally, get a copy of THE X-RATED BIBLE by Ben Edward Akerley for an examination of all those scriptures in the Bible that they don't talk about in Sunday School.

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Rectitude (n.), the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a proctologist immediately before he examines you.