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  1. Default Animal verses beast

    This is for our agnostic and atheist freinds, but others can join the fray if they like.

    So what distinguishes man from beast? Let's knock out the obvious that we can all agree on. Man seems to have a higher intellect, thus dominating the animal kingdom. So is this all that distinguishes us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by montra View Post
    This is for our agnostic and atheist freinds, but others can join the fray if they like.

    So what distinguishes man from beast? Let's knock out the obvious that we can all agree on. Man seems to have a higher intellect, thus dominating the animal kingdom. So is this all that distinguishes us?
    consciousness

    words; articulation (ability to learn over time the complexities of nature (god itself)

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bishadi View Post
    consciousness

    words; articulation (ability to learn over time the complexities of nature (god itself)
    Animals do not have consciousness? Can you elaborate as to why you say this?

    Also, who says that animals do not learn? Granted, they do not seem to be as gifted intellectually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montra View Post
    This is for our agnostic and atheist freinds, but others can join the fray if they like.

    So what distinguishes man from beast? Let's knock out the obvious that we can all agree on. Man seems to have a higher intellect, thus dominating the animal kingdom. So is this all that distinguishes us?
    His capacity to recognize his own self ownership and to be a rational moral actor.
    "The principle that the end justifies the means is, in individualist ethics, regarded as the denial of all morals. In collectivist ethics it becomes necessarily the supreme rule" -- F. A. Hayek.
    "A day, an hour, of virtuous liberty is worth a whole eternity in bondage" -- Joseph Addison's "Cato, A Tragedy" (1713)
    "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion." - Albert Camus

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedingHeadKen View Post
    His capacity to recognize his own self ownership and to be a rational moral actor.
    What makes you say that animals do not own "self ownership"? Also, who says that animals do not have morals? After all, it seems to me that only mankind kills and hunts his own species on such a grand scale. It would then appear that animals have a far better moral character, right?

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montra View Post
    This is for our agnostic and atheist freinds, but others can join the fray if they like.

    So what distinguishes man from beast? Let's knock out the obvious that we can all agree on. Man seems to have a higher intellect, thus dominating the animal kingdom. So is this all that distinguishes us?
    the only thing that i think really seperates us mentally is the ability to articulate complex thoughts. other animals have forms of primitive communication and language, but none that go into as much detail, and thusly dont allow for the contruction of abstract thought.

    physically, standing upright (frees up the hands), and hands well developed for manipulation are the big ones.
    Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by youenjoyme420 View Post
    the only thing that i think really seperates us mentally is the ability to articulate complex thoughts. other animals have forms of primitive communication and language, but none that go into as much detail, and thusly dont allow for the contruction of abstract thought.

    physically, standing upright (frees up the hands), and hands well developed for manipulation are the big ones.
    Could you elaborate by giving us a blow by blow conversation of two whales?

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montra View Post
    Could you elaborate by giving us a blow by blow conversation of two whales?
    whales certainly communicate with eachother. "whale songs" or whatever you call them arent just for (*)(*)(*)(*)s and giggles. they have meaning to other whales.

    the meanings of the calls are probably pretty basic, but its communication none the less. i think theres even a small amount of evidence that dolphins and perhaps whales actually name eachother.
    Last edited by youenjoyme420; Mar 04 2012 at 12:39 PM.
    Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by youenjoyme420 View Post
    whales certainly communicate with eachother. "whale songs" or whatever you call them arent just for (*)(*)(*)(*)s and giggles. they have meaning to other whales.

    the meanings of the calls are probably pretty basic, but its communication none the less. i think theres even a small amount of evidence that dolphins and perhaps whales actually name eachother.
    So you have no idea what they are saying, rather, you only know they are communicating?

    Hmmm? Anyhew, assuming your speculations are accurate, then what makes mankind so much better? In short, why is it OK to kill and eat animals but not people? If the reason is IQ and communication capabilities, then should the mentally retarded be rounded up and put on the menu?

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montra View Post
    So you have no idea what they are saying, rather, you only know they are communicating?
    its not just whales. most birds, and alot of mammals use vocalizations and body language as a form of communication. its been well documented. in some cases, we can know what they are saying by listening for a verbal/ body language cue, and documenting responses in the group. what we can see is that certain cues ultimately result in specific reactions.

    you can find studies and supporting evidence for this all over the internet, but im not gonna waste my time finding you a link for something thats more or less a basic fact in ecology.



    Hmmm? Anyhew, assuming your speculations are accurate, then what makes mankind so much better? In short, why is it OK to kill and eat animals but not people? If the reason is IQ and communication capabilities, then should the mentally retarded be rounded up and put on the menu?
    it isnt speculation, its well documented. what makes mankind more efficient is our mental ability to articulate complex and abstract ideas. we are able to ask the question "why?", and then hypothesise and experiment. basic communication in animals doesnt allow for that, although there are some examples of other species being able to hold basic conversations with people through sign language, symbols, etc, and some examples of animals being able to problem solve.

    eating people would be detrimental to the survival and success of the species, not that there arent examples of cannibalism amongst humans. lets also not forget the history of people laying waste to other people to further there own civilization.

    as far as eating animals, we need to do it to survive. stop doing it, and we die.
    Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality

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