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Old 01-19-2008, 04:29 PM
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Default God in America

On September 14th, 1814 Francis Scott Key endured a terrifying event with incredible patriotism. The British were attacking Fort McHenry and even though many lives were lost, the American flag stood proudly in the midst of smoke from the cannon fire. As a witness to this event, Key was inspired with great passion to write the now famous and commonly sung “Star Spangled Banner”. The song served as an unstoppable force for patriotism and on March 3rd, 1931 was made the national anthem. Since then it has been sung in Baseball games, 4th of July events, and countless other occasions; all in which it inspires true unity among Americans. What you may not know, however, is that one of the lines of the Star Spangled Banner would be considered by many secularists to be a violation of the separation of Church and State. If they had been allowed to make the decision, the national anthem, a truly American song, would have been banned from any official events.

Line thirty (third stanza) of the famous song reads "And this be our motto: In God is our trust". Even though this stanza is not frequently sung at most events, if left up to many radical atheists, those words would have disqualified this patriotic song from ever becoming our national anthem. Secularists are denying American citizens important parts of history because they feel they are too offensive or “infringe upon” their particular sensitivities. According to them, suppressing the truth is a small price to pay for political correctness. What is even more appalling is the fact that this is happening right now.
In 1989, a single atheist brought a suit to remove a war memorial from Mount Soledad. What was the reason for the lawsuit? He claimed the war memorial offended him because its centerpiece was a large cross. Fortunately, this legal battle was a victory for American history. President George W Bush recently signed a law which protects the cross from removal. This radical secularism isn't isolated either. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) threatened to sue Los Angeles County if they did not remove a cross from the county seal and won a judicial battle in the Mojave Desert to remove a cross which was part of a World War I memorial to commemorate our nation's soldiers who sacrificed their lives in combat. Other cases against God include the fight against the words "In God we trust" on American currency and "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. In both cases atheists have attempted to erase part of our nation's history because it was offensive to them.

The history of God in America doesn't stop with memorials, pledges, money, or songs either. President Abraham Lincoln mentioned God in both of his famous speeches, the Gettysburg Address and the Second Inaugural Address, seven times. Lincoln even went so far to state that "The Judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether." and implied that the Civil War was a punishment by God for slavery. This clearly demonstrates that Lincoln's strong religious convictions played a key role in his stance against slavery. Without God, one of our nation's most prominent leaders would not have had the courage to become the great emancipator.

God has played a fundamental role in America. He has inspired unprecedented leadership and has been a driving force in numerous historical decisions and writings. The truth of our great nation, however offensive, should be preserved; not substituted with something which is considered "more acceptable". It is the duty of America's people and leaders to protect our history.

what do you think?
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:20 PM
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i think if some people can only be kept in check by imaginary friends, then let them keep them. as long as religious people dont force others into thinking they cant be good without blind faith, theres really no problem.
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"religion isnt unique to conservatives."

do you know what the above statement means? there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.
You are incorrect, per google the phrase mostly unique comes up with over 3 million hits making the use of the phrase not so unique. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:54 AM
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i think if some people can only be kept in check by imaginary friends, then let them keep them. as long as religious people dont force others into thinking they cant be good without blind faith, theres really no problem.
That's somewhat reasonable. No one should be forced to believe in God or follow a religion. However, saying that the only reason people follow a religion is to keep themselves in check is incorrect. I, for one, know I am perfectly sane but I still am a Christian. People choose to follow to follow a religion for different reasons not necessarily to be kept in check.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:03 PM
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i just mean to have a general sense of right and wrong. its all close to the same thing, some people just attribute it to god rather than their own ability to reason/sympathy, etc. as long as its there, i dont really care what people describe it as. if you have good intentions, theyre good intentions.

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"religion isnt unique to conservatives."

do you know what the above statement means? there is no "mostly unique;" thats like saying "sometimes always," its an oxymoron - its either one or the other.
You are incorrect, per google the phrase mostly unique comes up with over 3 million hits making the use of the phrase not so unique. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:11 AM
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Hmm.... interesting take.

I have an observation though - "the cross", does not equate with, "God".

"The cross", is a symbol of a specific religion, which is Christianity.

So, I mean, the idea that the United States is not a Christian nation, goes all the way back to the Treaty of Tripoli right around the eary 1800 (give or take a year or two) -

So, it occurs to me, that "God", is a much more general invocation of a Higher Power, than is a cross. A cross is "symbolic" of a specific religion, and if you happen to be a member of that religion than you might equate that with God, but others don't, and therefore, it's not an appropriate symbol for We the People.

If you want to display such a symbol, go for it. You know, if you're a homeowner and you wanna do a Nativity Scene at Christmas, or if you're a store-keeper and you wanna put a cross on your window, go for it.

But if the State wants to display such a symbol, that's something different. Because, the State should not show favoritism to a specific religion. So in other words, if you want to put up crosses all over the place, you better make sure there's menorahs too, and green crescents, and all the rest.

But I mean, would it better, in terms of saving the taxpayers money, to just do none of that stuff, and leave religion in the personal domain where it belongs?

Religion has nothing to do with the State - and the State, has nothing to do with religion. And I'm sorry, but just because it "did" or "may have" in the past, doesn't make it right.

And I mean, I wouldn't want to disparage or minimize that history in any way, but that also doesn't mean I'm going to be limited by it either.

So, just my two pennies....
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
Hmm.... interesting take.

I have an observation though - "the cross", does not equate with, "God".

"The cross", is a symbol of a specific religion, which is Christianity.

So, I mean, the idea that the United States is not a Christian nation, goes all the way back to the Treaty of Tripoli right around the eary 1800 (give or take a year or two) -

So, it occurs to me, that "God", is a much more general invocation of a Higher Power, than is a cross. A cross is "symbolic" of a specific religion, and if you happen to be a member of that religion than you might equate that with God, but others don't, and therefore, it's not an appropriate symbol for We the People.

If you want to display such a symbol, go for it. You know, if you're a homeowner and you wanna do a Nativity Scene at Christmas, or if you're a store-keeper and you wanna put a cross on your window, go for it.

But if the State wants to display such a symbol, that's something different. Because, the State should not show favoritism to a specific religion. So in other words, if you want to put up crosses all over the place, you better make sure there's menorahs too, and green crescents, and all the rest.

But I mean, would it better, in terms of saving the taxpayers money, to just do none of that stuff, and leave religion in the personal domain where it belongs?

Religion has nothing to do with the State - and the State, has nothing to do with religion. And I'm sorry, but just because it "did" or "may have" in the past, doesn't make it right.

And I mean, I wouldn't want to disparage or minimize that history in any way, but that also doesn't mean I'm going to be limited by it either.

So, just my two pennies....
While I don't agree with you on certain issues. This post is mainly to all the arrogant atheists who call all Christians and people who believe in God "ignorant". We can see from history that many people, including famous leaders, believed in God and were not "ignorant". It is also to the people who want to erase our nation's history because it offends them and goes against their secularist agenda.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:36 PM
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While I don't agree with you on certain issues. This post is mainly to all the arrogant atheists who call all Christians and people who believe in God "ignorant". We can see from history that many people, including famous leaders, believed in God and were not "ignorant". It is also to the people who want to erase our nation's history because it offends them and goes against their secularist agenda.
I don't know anyone like that.

Do you?
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:11 PM
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I don't know anyone like that.

Do you?
The ACLU, the Clinton's, Jeremiah(remember him?). I'm sure there are many more, I just can't remember them at the moment.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:38 AM
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What gets me is how religious people are in fact ignorant... ignorant concerning Scripture, of all things.

This country is not God’s country. Nowhere in Scripture or prophecy is spoken of some country that is specially blessed by God, to which we should pledge our loyalty; no political party that we should support that will forward God’s agenda.

Where do you guys get this stuff. <--- Rhetorical question, as I know where, but it’s not Biblical or Christian.

Actually, the big right-wing flag-waving “churches” as are the evil (yes, truly evil) powers that presently run this country/world are spoken of clearly in the Scripture and in Revelations. Sorry, they’re quite opposite of what a religious person would think, but as is stated, except for the very elect, many will be fooled.

I suggest that you religious people do some research into the history of religion, especially the “Christian religion”.

I suggest you religious people stick your nose in your Bibles, cause you’ll find that there is no “Christian religion”... Christian and religion = oxymoron. It’s like calling a restaurant a culinary school, or a menu a cookbook. (I don’t expect you to understand)

Come out of your babylonian trinity-SUNday-xmas-easter-tammuz-on-the-cross-etc-etc harlot churches, stop listening to your false prophet blind leaders, and stop the beast, cause that’s what you’re doing.

Not that I would expect anyone to listen... just thought it was right to put it out there.

Peace,

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Old 01-31-2008, 07:09 AM
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The ACLU, the Clinton's
Got some cites?
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