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Thread: God particle discovery is a win for science over superstition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anobsitar View Post
    Dr. George Tiller was shot down during church service on Sunday. He was a member of a lutheran church. His murderer Scott Roeder sympathiced with a so called "freemen-movement". I don't know what a "freemen-movement" is. Try to explain to me why you are thinking Mr. Scott Roeder is a member of a christian church. In Germany the newspapers wrote he's an extreme right-wing. We are associating "extreme right wing" with Hitler and his criminals and not with Christians. To use a weapon in a church is also not something what a Christian would do.

    http://youtu.be/BTl3xnrfSiU
    –A profile in today’s Wichita Eagle quote ex-wife Lindsey Roeder as saying that when Scott Roeder (latest mug from the Wichita Eagle’s arraignment story today) turned to extremism and religion a decade ago he became “adamant about his Old Testament beliefs and observed the Sabbath from Friday night through Saturday. Nothing could get in the way of that. Not soccer games when his son was younger. Nothing.”

    But she noted that last Friday night was different, and he took his 22-year-old son to see “Star Trek.” (I went on Saturday, but the film didn’t make me do anything crazy. Yet.) “In hindsight, my son said, ‘He was saying goodbye to me.’ “

    –She also gave the AP a keeper of a quote: “That’s all he cared about is anti-abortion, ‘the church this, God is this,’ yada yada.”

    –A Time magazine story today also notes that Roeder’s car had was “decorated with a red rose — an antiabortion emblem — and a Jesus fish.” Not much there.

    –A Monday New York Times story quotes Roeder’s ex-wife as saying Roeder was looking for a ”scapegoat” to blame for his troubles. ”First it was taxes — he stopped paying. Then he turned to the church and got involved in anti-abortion,” she said.


    Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/pontificat...#ixzz20n6HtP2v

    No one suggested he was a member of a church. That was your superfluous addition to the assertions he was an extremist Christian. There does not seem to be any doubt of that.
    Last edited by thebrucebeat; Jul 16 2012 at 05:18 AM.

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  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anobsitar View Post
    ... Try to explain to me why you are thinking Mr. Scott Roeder is a member of a christian church. In Germany the newspapers wrote he's an extreme right-wing. We are associating "extreme right wing" with Hitler and his criminals and not with Christians. To use a weapon in a church is also not something what a Christian would do....
    That is called the "no true Christian" fallacy, commonly used by Christians to deny any scurrilous activity by their brethren. Much the same fudging applies to Hitler, who was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic church.
    Last edited by Colonel K; Jul 16 2012 at 05:26 AM.
    Hello! I'm from Europe, the place where history comes from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swensson View Post
    A doctor is someone who holds a doctorate ...
    I know this. Nevertheless the respect for a doctor is not coming from his academic studies but from his job - and his job is to be a healer and not to be a killer. A doctor should not do any abortion - except he has to save the life of the mother.

    http://youtu.be/aEPZxf3l8hI
    Last edited by Anobsitar; Jul 16 2012 at 05:36 AM.
    On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

    *10/23/2010 +11/04/2014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VguQkQXVw4

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  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel K View Post
    That is called the "no true Christian" fallacy, commonly used by Christians to deny any scurrilous activity by their brethren. Much the same fudging applies to Hitler, who was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic church.
    If you would be a German I would say now to you "You are offending your own intelligence"

    http://youtu.be/CizudgiRiOs
    On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

    *10/23/2010 +11/04/2014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VguQkQXVw4

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thebrucebeat View Post
    –A profile in today’s Wichita Eagle quote ex-wife Lindsey Roeder as saying that when Scott Roeder (latest mug from the Wichita Eagle’s arraignment story today) turned to extremism and religion a decade ago he became “adamant about his Old Testament beliefs and observed the Sabbath from Friday night through Saturday. Nothing could get in the way of that. Not soccer games when his son was younger. Nothing.”
    What has this to do with the christian religion?

    http://youtu.be/qAi-LLcNKbU
    Last edited by Anobsitar; Jul 16 2012 at 05:44 AM.
    On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

    *10/23/2010 +11/04/2014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VguQkQXVw4

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anobsitar View Post
    I know this. Nevertheless the respect for a doctor is not coming from his academic studies but from his job - and his job is to be a healer and not to be a killer. A doctor should not do any abortion - except he has to save the life of the mother.

    http://youtu.be/aEPZxf3l8hI
    Do you understand the hoops that women have to jump through in order to get a late term abortion? Tiller saw his practice as a positive service to these women. You are free to disagree, but don't use your reinvention of the term "doctor" to excuse or even mitigate the crime of Scott Roeder.
    You don't have to like it, but abortion is legal in this country. Tiller's occupation does not mean Roeder was justified, and nothing you have said changes that he was an extremist Christian.
    Last edited by thebrucebeat; Jul 16 2012 at 05:46 AM.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anobsitar View Post
    What has this to do with the christian religion?

    http://youtu.be/qAi-LLcNKbU
    Put it in context with the rest of the post you snipped and a moron can see the relevance.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thebrucebeat View Post
    ... No one suggested he was a member of a church. That was your superfluous addition to the assertions he was an extremist Christian. ...
    Sorry - but someone who is not a member of a church is not able to be a Christian.

    http://youtu.be/ikHM5-UzqGU
    Last edited by Anobsitar; Jul 16 2012 at 05:54 AM.
    On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

    *10/23/2010 +11/04/2014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VguQkQXVw4

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thebrucebeat View Post
    Put it in context with the rest of the post you snipped and a moron can see the relevance.
    It's nonsense what you say. The victim was a member of a christian church - the murderer was not a member of a christian church. Your example is not justifying your propagandism. It's a terrible story - a story full of deepest despair - but it's not in the center of the christian belief (faith) or the christian church[es] - it's in the center of a hopeless politics what gives so many human beings no chance to survive any longer. It seems to me everyone in this story - except the aborted children and the people in the church who had to watch this murder - tried to become the own god - that's the spiritual problem I'm able to see. Kyrie eleison. Help us dear god.

    http://youtu.be/4U6D9q6L3uw
    Last edited by Anobsitar; Jul 16 2012 at 06:18 AM.
    On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
    Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

    *10/23/2010 +11/04/2014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VguQkQXVw4

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anobsitar View Post
    I know this. Nevertheless the respect for a doctor is not coming from his academic studies but from his job - and his job is to be a healer and not to be a killer. A doctor should not do any abortion - except he has to save the life of the mother.
    I wasn't discussing from where anyone gets their respect, I was challenging your questioning of whether or not abortion doctors such as George Tiller are doctors. You made some claim up about them not being doctors unless they are healers, which I challenged.

    George Tiller's job was to be a Medical director, a job description which includes leadership and oversight rather than direct healing. Even so, physicians often kill things like parasites or bacteria, which means that your assertion that there should be no killing is false. The obvious objection to that, the assertion that foetuses are humans is what I believe the meat of the issue to be.

    It is my belief that his actions are based on a belief that foetuses are not humans, which is unrelated to whether or not whether or not his job is to be a healer.
    A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

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