Bible Compared to Quran
Based on transcripts of vairous lectures given by Yusuf Estes & Dr. Gary Miller
Introduction by Yusuf Estes -
It should be stated at the outset of this work, that Muslims do not seek to put down or desecrete the Holy Bible. It is a matter critical matter of faith for Muslims to believe in the original revelations that came down to Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus, just as it is is important for Muslims to believe in the revelation of the Quran that came to Muhammad, peace be upon him. The key word here however, is "original." As we all know the origin of the Bible is clouded with centuries of copying, translating and passing down information, now long lost with only copies of manuscripts remaining to remind us of what once was the Bible.
Additionally, it should be noted that Muslims do not seek to destroy the Christians or Jews belief in the Word of God, rather it is an obligation for Muslims to call to what is right and to halt that which is evil. Certainly, causing the "People of the Book" (as the Quran refers to Christians and Jews) to fall into disbelief and leave off any faith in God at all, is the very opposite of the direction Muslims should take in presenting any comparison between Islam and what has come down in the past from the Almighty God. We only seek to bring about more light to the people seeking guidance and pray for all of us to be successful with our Lord in this life and in the Next life and we ask His Guidance and Support in doing so, ameen.

THE BIBLE
[Yusuf Estes]
Old Testament
There exists today a number of different versions in the ancient Hebrew language of the Jewish Book called the Torah [Law] and this is usually referred to in Christianity as The Old Testament. Naturally, there have been many different translations to a great number of languages over the centuries and one could not expect them to be identical in text or meaning. What we have in English today still remains somewhat similar to large amounts of these older documents.
New Testament
There are also different versions of the Gospel or what is commonly called The New Testament in the Koine Greek language and Latin and these also have many translations to even other langugaes. Even amongst the English translations there are great differences. To mention two very clear differences for example; the Catholic Bible [c. 325 A.D] contains 73 books in total, while the Protestant Bible contains only 66 books, and although the newer (Protestant version) was taken from the Catholic Bible even then these books do not match completely with each other. There is no common denominator for any of the many different versions of the Bible.
Dead Sea Scrolls
There have been a number of scrolls and parchments found in places surrounding what we call the "Holy Land" over the centuries, not the least of which are those often referred to as the "Dead Sea Scrolls" or as they are known to the scholars "Wadi Qumran Scrolls." These were discovered in the last century around 1930 and have been proven to be very ancient and could well be older than any other extant manuscripts. Much of what has been translated from these scrolls is similar to some of the oldest manuscripts, but there are still very important differences worthy of note. We would like to recommend some important reading on this topic at the end of this paper.

THE QURAN
[Yusuf Estes]
Quran Means "Recitation"
The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).
Only One Version - Arabic
There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.
Memorized by Millions - Entirely
The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?
Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized
All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.
God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran
The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).
Quran Mentions Itself
The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).
Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly
The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Really?

Origins of the Koran

"...While modern Muslims may be committed to an impossibly conservative position, Muslim scholars of the early years of Islam were far more flexible, realizing that parts of the Koran were lost, perverted, and that there were many Thousand variants which made it impossible to talk of 'the Koran'.

ie. As-Suyuti (d 1505), one of the most famous/revered of the commentators of the Koran, quotes Ibn Umar al Khattab as saying: "Let No one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been Lost, thus let him say, "I have acquired of it what is available"
Aisha, the favorite wife of the Prophet, says, also according to a tradition recounted by as-Suynti, "During the time of the Prophet, the chapter of the Parties used to be 200 verses when read. When Uthman edited the copies of the Quran, only the current (verses) were recorded".

As-Suyuti also tells this story about Uba ibn Kaíb, - great companion of Muhammad:

This famous companion asked one of the Muslims, "How many verses in the chapter of the Parties?" He said, "73 verses." He (Uba) told him, "It used to be almost equal to the chapter of the Cow (about 286 verses) & included the verse of the stoning..."

As noted earlier, since there was No single document collecting all the revelations, after Muhammad's death in 632 CE, many of his followers tried to gather all the known revelations and write them down in codex form.

Soon we had the codices of several scholars such as Ibn Masud, Uba ibn Kaíb, ëAli, Abu Bakr, al-Aswad, & others (Jeffery, chapter 6, has listed Fifteen primary codices, & a large number of secondary ones). As Islam spread, we eventually had what became known as the metropolitan codices in the centers of Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, Basra.."

Uthman's codex was supposed to standardize the consonantal text, yet we find that many of the variant traditions of this consonantal text survived well into the fourth Islamic century. The problem was aggravated by the fact that the consonantal text was unpointed, that is to say, the dots that distinguish, for example, a "b" from a "t" or a "th" were missing. Several other letters (f & q; j, h, & kh; s & d; r & z; s and sh; d & dh, t & z) were indistinguishable.
In other words, the Koran was written in a scripta defectiva..."

cont'd in more detail at:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/x/koran_prob.htm

i think that either you understand this man wrongly or you falsify infrmation
but if this infrmation from As-Suyuti true , give me reference of this informaton (name of book , page number ...)

As noted earlier, since there was No single document collecting all the revelations, after Muhammad's death in 632 CE, many of his followers tried to gather all the known revelations and write them down in codex form.

Soon we had the codices of several scholars such as Ibn Masud, Uba ibn Kaíb, ëAli, Abu Bakr, al-Aswad, & others (Jeffery, chapter 6, has listed Fifteen primary codices, & a large number of secondary ones). As Islam spread, we eventually had what became known as the metropolitan codices in the centers of Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, Basra.."

Uthman's codex was supposed to standardize the consonantal text, yet we find that many of the variant traditions of this consonantal text survived well into the fourth Islamic century. The problem was aggravated by the fact that the consonantal text was unpointed, that is to say, the dots that distinguish, for example, a "b" from a "t" or a "th" were missing. Several other letters (f & q; j, h, & kh; s & d; r & z; s and sh; d & dh, t & z) were indistinguishable.
In other words, the Koran was written in a scripta defectiva..."

cont'd in more detail at:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/x/koran_prob.htm[/quote]

[/quote]
Originally Posted by abu-afak View PostReally?

Origins of the Koran

"...While modern Muslims may be committed to an impossibly conservative position, Muslim scholars of the early years of Islam were far more flexible, realizing that parts of the Koran were lost, perverted, and that there were many Thousand variants which made it impossible to talk of 'the Koran'.

ie. As-Suyuti (d 1505), one of the most famous/revered of the commentators of the Koran, quotes Ibn Umar al Khattab as saying: "Let No one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been Lost, thus let him say, "I have acquired of it what is available"
Aisha, the favorite wife of the Prophet, says, also according to a tradition recounted by as-Suynti, "During the time of the Prophet, the chapter of the Parties used to be 200 verses when read. When Uthman edited the copies of the Quran, only the current (verses) were recorded".

As-Suyuti also tells this story about Uba ibn Kaíb, - great companion of Muhammad:

This famous companion asked one of the Muslims, "How many verses in the chapter of the Parties?" He said, "73 verses." He (Uba) told him, "It used to be almost equal to the chapter of the Cow (about 286 verses) & included the verse of the stoning..."[/quote]
i think that either you understand this man wrongly or you falsify infrmation
but if this infrmation from As-Suyuti true , give me reference of this informaton (name of book , page number ...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu-afak View Post
As noted earlier, since there was No single document collecting all the revelations, after Muhammad's death in 632 CE, many of his followers tried to gather all the known revelations and write them down in codex form.

Soon we had the codices of several scholars such as Ibn Masud, Uba ibn Kaíb, ëAli, Abu Bakr, al-Aswad, & others (Jeffery, chapter 6, has listed Fifteen primary codices, & a large number of secondary ones). As Islam spread, we eventually had what became known as the metropolitan codices in the centers of Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, Basra.."

Uthman's codex was supposed to standardize the consonantal text, yet we find that many of the variant traditions of this consonantal text survived well into the fourth Islamic century. The problem was aggravated by the fact that the consonantal text was unpointed, that is to say, the dots that distinguish, for example, a "b" from a "t" or a "th" were missing. Several other letters (f & q; j, h, & kh; s & d; r & z; s and sh; d & dh, t & z) were indistinguishable.
In other words, the Koran was written in a scripta defectiva..."

there are No different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation.
there is only one version , and this version not differ from aprox1400 years ago version that is the version which is written since 1400 years ago approxmiatly exist in some musum

and this link complete the topic
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/article...e_vs_Quran.asp

What about this?


http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0bU...watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo#
"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

Interesting Passages, amongst many, in the current Bible that Christianity uses (martin luther translations):

Deuteronomy 22:28-29: laws of raping
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24: death of a rape victim
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14: The rules of murder, rape, pillage and enslavement.
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Exodus 21:7-11: Sex Slaves
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment

Zechariah 13:3: Freedom of speech will not be tolerated...murder them
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through


1 John 2:7-8 : apparently stupidity and oxymorons arent anything new
Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment, for it is an old one you have always had, right from the beginning. This commandment – to love one another – is the same message you heard before. Yet it is also new.

James 5:14-15 praying will cure you? better inform Pfeizer they have more to worry about than stem cell research
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him.

My comparison:

Both fiction.
Both boring.

__________________
I gave myself to Jesus, but now he never calls.

agreed. see? you can win sometimes.

__________________
Remedial English - Rule #2:

Always check your answers against Google search results.

In fact it is silly to cite these passages to prove anything at all. When was the last time a man was forced not to divorce someone? And to pay the father for the privilege of raping her? When was the last time in a Christian country a man legally sold his children into slavery? Or when was the last time a Christian country stoned a woman to death for adultery? Christians and Jews no longer follow these laws, if indeed they ever did. They were written thousands of years ago.

Yet they still stone adulterers in Islamic countries. They cut off the hands of thieves.

Is it really fair to make a comparison between a book that was written 2000-3000 years ago against a book written 1600 years ago? Would you expect the Koran to be more humane than the Old and New Testaments? I would. But is it?

By the way, translations of Zech 13:3 say nothing whatever about 'freedom of speech' -- they are talking about lying 'in the name of the Lord' . Not sure exactly what that means, but when was the last time that Christians killed someone for lying in the name of the Lord???

Oh and laugh all you like. Most doctors will tell you that what makes one person live and another die from the same illness is totally unknown. And that "faith healing" sometimes actually works. The mind is a powerful weapon.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0bU...watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo#
"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)