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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:07 AM
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I'll tell you why sunnyside.

Children need guidance and are getting very little of it, in my opinion.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:08 AM
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It is you who denies the data.

I've provided AMPLE empirical evidence.
You have indeed. The problem is none of it supports your thesis.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by stekim View Post
You have indeed. The problem is none of it supports your thesis.
Religion is a source of Moral guidance.

A source...not THE source.

Morals and Ethics are completely ignored in the Public School curriculum.

It's all about "self-esteem" and "feeling good about oneself"

Ribbons handed out for "trying really hard"

It's ----'ing pathetic.

I've seen it with Air Force recruits over the years.

Standards have declined. I've seen it myself.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
I'll tell you why sunnyside.

Children need guidance and are getting very little of it, in my opinion.
Indeed they do, but lack of "God's teachings" is not exactly the reason for bad morals

Atheist/Agnostic rates of a few 1st world nations
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
Japan 64 - 65%
Germany 41 - 49%
France 43 - 54%
Britain 31 - 44%
Canada 19 - 30%
Sweden 46 - 85%
Netherlands 39 - 44%
Australia 24 - 25%
USA 3 - 9%

now look at the stats:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...lts-per-capita

There is no correlation with lack of faith or no religion in government to these social problems

Note: Ireland probably has a higher rate of believers than the US, and still doesn't have as much social issues. Again, there is no correlation between religion and social issues. People claim that your country needs God's teachings, but ignoring the evidence is just going to make it harder to find a solution.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:45 AM
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In 1668, Quakers in Germantown, PA adopted the first resolution opposing slavery.

You can thank Christians for this.
A few thoughts...

1) So did many atheists.
2) Does this mean I can thank Christians for bringing the practice of slavery with them to the U.S.?
3) Far more Christian organizations in the U.S. supported slavery than opposed it. The quakers were an exception, not the rule. In fact, were more believers like the Quakers in faith and practice, I'd have far fewer issues with Christianity.
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:50 AM
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I divided people into two camps regardless of religion, race, creed or anything else.
Decent and Indecent, and catzmeow had a problem with that also.

Apparently she has a problem with my World view.
1. I have a problem with it because it is a logical fallacy known as false dichotomy. Humanity is far too complicated to be distilled in such a simplistic fashion.

2. Nothing like clinging to one's paradigms in the face of all evidence. Your worldview is illogical. You are right. I do have a problem with that.

YOu make judgements about those of us without faith, but you ignore any and all evidence that shows that your judgements are spurious.

If God is the logos (see John, Chapter 1), then he is the source of all logic, and thus, would be infinitely logical. But, as described within Christianity, he is not. If there is a god, it makes sense to me that he would be rational and logical, not irrational and superstitious.

If a belief is irrational and superstitious, it seems natural that it originated with humans, not the divine.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Religion is a source of Moral guidance.

A source...not THE source.
As long as we agree that it's not the only source, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Morals and Ethics are completely ignored in the Public School curriculum.
In a way, yes. But more pressure has to be put on the parents. Parents have the greatest influence on their kids. Solutions like financial aid and free services for parents could be a way to deal with this. Things like free day care, free sport programs, and free medical insurance for kids in the form of tax write-offs could help parents out tremendously.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
1. I have a problem with it because it is a logical fallacy known as false dichotomy. Humanity is far too complicated to be distilled in such a simplistic fashion.

2. Nothing like clinging to one's paradigms in the face of all evidence. Your worldview is illogical. You are right. I do have a problem with that.

YOu make judgements about those of us without faith, but you ignore any and all evidence that shows that your judgements are spurious.

If God is the logos (see John, Chapter 1), then he is the source of all logic, and thus, would be infinitely logical. But, as described within Christianity, he is not. If there is a god, it makes sense to me that he would be rational and logical, not irrational and superstitious.

If a belief is irrational and superstitious, it seems natural that it originated with humans, not the divine.
Religious people rose in rebellion against Great Britain in 1776, and that most American statesmen, when they began to form new governments at the state and national levels, shared the convictions of most of their constituents that religion was, to quote Alexis de Tocqueville's observation, indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions.
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:53 AM
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Japan 64 - 65%
Germany 41 - 49%
France 43 - 54%
Britain 31 - 44%
Canada 19 - 30%
Sweden 46 - 85%
Netherlands 39 - 44%
Australia 24 - 25%
USA 3 - 9%
The U.S. is always listed among the most religious countries. If Herk's theory is be believed, the U.S. should have a crime rate 7-8 times less than that of Japan. Yet it's the exact opposite. That's not to imply that religion is causing crime and other problems in the U.S. But it doesn't appear to be the savior Herk claims, either. The problems Herk has listed as being caused by a lack of religion don't exist for the most part in Japan, yet Japan is among the least religious of countries. We are very religious here, yet all those problems are common.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Qwerty View Post
As long as we agree that it's not the only source, yes.


In a way, yes. But more pressure has to be put on the parents. Parents have the greatest influence on their kids. Solutions like financial aid and free services for parents could be a way to deal with this. Things like free day care, free sport programs, and free medical insurance for kids in the form of tax write-offs could help parents out tremendously.

Don't have children if you can't afford them.

Why place ALL of the burden on taxpayers.

I'm all for public education by the way, I just think the curriculum its liberally biased.
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