I'm strictly agnostic in my beliefs in orbiting tea cups and pink unicorns. I admit they may or may not exist and that I do not know, though I'd imagine with enough time in an ever expanding universe that one or the other if not both will pop up.

I don't know if I think that if I have no proof of anything that it then doesn't exist. I'm not sure I have a thought process that allows me to be atheist on any thing. Well, except that there is no God. The proof to me is undeniable to the point where I'd doubt my own existence first.

That tingling awe is belief in God gone unrecognized. The primitive brain and it's mediocre toolbox of senses ignore much more than they can account for and some things detected are just thrown into the "junk" drawer. That's what happens here, in my opinion.

Awe is a fair name for God, though of course like all others incomplete.

It sounds to me like, in your own terms, the "evidence" of God is simply another symptom of the "mediocre toolbox of senses" people have.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

And the point that alot of atheists such as myself will make is WHY are some of these things you mentioned considered "bad" things??

Maybe there are more prescriptions for anti depressants because back in the day people didnt know what was wrong with them. Now through medicine and psychology we are able to identify psychological issues and treat them.

What is wrong with pornography?? Just because you dont like it doesnt mean that it is immoral. That is a religious thing and I understand that. But to me I personally enjoy looking at naked women, and yes they are also fun to have sex with.

Most "drugs" that are illegal are actually not as bad for you as 95% of drugs behind the counter at a Pharmacy. Many in our government though decided to label these things as "evil" and now we have people being thrown in prison and having their lives ruined for taking something that makes them feel good. What is wrong with feeling good?? Yes I agree drugs can be abused....But so can red meat, candy, caffeine, and plenty of other things. Thousands of people die in the U.S. every year from huffing gasoline...SHould we ban gas?? Oh wait, cant do that lol.

Whats wrong with computer games....That doesnt make any sense. Its FUN for people. Its also NO DIFFERENT than what you are doing here on these message boards. Yeah young people these days probably need to get outside more and do more physical activity...But playing computer games isnt a bad thing in terms of "morals".

I play a game of texas hold em with my friends almost every saturday night. We each buy in with 20 dollars and end up playing for most of the night. We also drink a few beers and listen to music while we are playing. So I am gambling and drinking alcohol. Does that then make me and my friends bad people?? We aren't hurting anyone else, we are simply enjoying each others company and playing some cards. Yes gambling can be destructive if it goes overboard.....But its no different than someone who say pays more attention to sports than their wife and kids, or something along those lines.

This is one of my biggest gripes about our society. People try to push THEIR morals down the rest of our throats. I enjoy porn, I enjoy video games, I had plenty of sex with my wife before we got married...Had a kid together actually 4 years before that happened. I enjoy the occassional beer, I use foul language occassionally, and like to gamble every now and then. I dont use drugs, however I simply dont use them because they are illegal and I dont want to risk going to prison when I have a kid to take care of. If they were legal I would probably use a few of them on an occasional basis.

I dont consider myself a bad person. I served my nation proudly in the Marine Corps and did tours in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I am hard working, pay my taxes, am attending college, make sure to be informed before I vote, I am a good father and husband, a good friend, and I try to treat everyone I meet...Even online, with respect because I expect it in return.

Now I respect your decision to believe in God. I dont share your faith but if other people want to believe in God they can. If it makes you a better person and brings more happiness to your life then I think its a great thing and im happy for you.

But the whole "morals" argument is one I get frustrated over because who are you or anyone else to say what is or isn't "moral".

You may ask then, what do I consider immoral?? Pretty much for me it boils down to interfering with others free will and personal happiness. Dont kill, dont rape, dont steal. Those sorts of things. For instance I support legalization of most drugs...However if you were to say take them and drive and then hurt someone, I would throw the book at you in a court of law.

But people need to keep their OWN morals in check and live by them, but not push them down the rest of our throats.

__________________
"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

The other problem with the idea that people are somehow getting more immoral is that it implies that everything else in the age was constant.

People in the "good ol' days" didn't have access to pornography, computer games, or many drugs.
People in the "good ol' days" could not very well survive single parenthood, nor could their kids.

In the "good ol' days" people had other methods of escapism (remember the housewives on valium... really religion has always been escapism- maybe that's what all the bitterness is about).
In the "good ol' days" a woman in a bad marriage where she was beaten was STUCK. In the "good ol' days" a bastard kid wound up being brought up in secret or aborted secretly in a back alley. It wasn't all as well documented as it is today- people tried to keep it that way.

The fact is that people seek escapism. People end up having bastard kids.
We have more ways to cope with it now. There are more people now. And I might concede that the information age is making access almost too quick (for good and bad).

I'd also wager that normal people are able to do more good with all these changes.
The real problem: Why do people do good or bad?
That's the elusive question, isn't it?

Well I think God's had a lot of chances to prove his case for his being that answer and so far- no avail.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

First of all, Thank you for your service.

We can't have 6 billion people on this Planet all following "their own rules".

The only Universal truths and morality can be found in the Word of God.

Without this Foundation of God's Words found in the Old and New Testaments,

Morality does not exist.

No God?

No right and No wrong.

Not on all things... but on most things, yes we can.
Obviously we can't let people murder (not that most people would even if legal) or break the agreed upon rules of the economy...
But other than that, why do they need to follow the same rules?
Most of the actions people do that offend you, as long as they take pragmatic precautions, will not affect you or anyone else in anyway...
Not that anyone could stop them anyway.

Not true, as these "truths" are far from universal.
Interestingly enough many of the moral concepts are cultural universals (something akin to the "golden rule", laws against murder and theft, etc.). But they do not have a single God to connect them. Faith is a nonsequiter.
People who don't follow the culturally universal morals would not follow them regardless of their specific faith (although the intensity of the faith may have some bearing- although occasionally intense faith gives people "license" to do evil as the "will of [insert name for supreme force]").

No matter how many times you repeat that, it does not become true.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

Very true, we've gone too far from the bible and we can see it in society. Why has it become so rare these days to see a father give away his daughter to be raped. These are true values!

"I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof"
Genesis 19

This is right, and people today do not realize this. They need to learn the word of God!

So you take one quote from the Old Testament out of context to prove something?

No God.

No morality.

Blaspheme all you want...

Law and Order is a thin blue line of armed Police Officers....that is the only thing
holding back a return to primal Survivalism.

This is your World without God.

We are nothing more than chimps with expensive toys without God. If you choose to define humanity as that, as Godless, be my guest.

Well... yes. Even with religion, morality will always be subjective. Religious figures pick and choose what parts of the bible they want to teach. Funny how one could believe homosexuals goto heaven and yet another could believe homosexuals are the reason for 9/11. How did they come to different conclusions if they have the exact same source? All religious teachings are subjective based off of the individuals emotions and personal experience.

Amazing. Looks exactly like a world allegedly "with God".

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside