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Thread: Holy Bible condemns homosexuality? YES!

  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihapiha View Post
    Maybe it's a wrong understanding of mine then. I always thought that the more religious (and fanatic) you are the more hate you bring out to others who don't share your believes. I figured that the most religious (born again) Christians have more problems with gay people than moderate Christians or Atheists. I was rather shocked when I saw Fred Phelps for the first time. And the worrying part is, he considers himself Christian...
    The depth of ones faith alone is not the determiner of whether they are right or wrong.

    For example, Saint Kolbe was a very faithful man, and his faithfulness provides an uplifting and tolerant message. Why is his depth of faith not held as an example of what can be best in very deep faith?


  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral View Post
    I believe I have already explained the referrences, and they are quite explicit in their being spelled out. There are no Biblical admonitions against inter-racial marriage, save those of the descendants of Cain ... which no longer applies because that blood line has long sense been intermixed and made irrelevant.
    This shows (I believe) a complete misunderstanding of passages which reference Cain. Are you aware of a concerted effort by clergy, in our early Am history, to link a biblical reference to tabooing mixed marriages?
    Besides that Solomon wrote entire books in verse about the beauty of one wife who scholars think was definitely Black.
    There is no inalienable right to choose the partner of your choosing.
    Human nature if only for survival, embraces cohabitation, grouping, and cooperation.
    If you are alone and want to be married you are not happy. If, as a person who desires cohabitation, you are limited to marrying only red headed girls when you've always abhorred them, you will be unhappy.
    The founding document of our country specifically names pursuit of happiness as one of its precepts.

    You cannot chose a child,
    Yes you can choose a child through adoption, foster care and invitro fertilization.

    you cannot marry an inanimate object, you cannot be polygamist, you cannot marry your rape victim, you cannot marry an animal, you cannot marry a dead body, you cannot marry a name or a number.
    You can marry one person. And our laws of state and federals until quite recently, only specify quantity and majority age as criteria.
    You can't marry a dead gay person, or more than one gay or lesbian at a time under law. But constitutionally you can marry one person over 21 whatever either of your genders or skin colors may be.
    Making ridiculous state laws against gay marriage is like Jim Crow laws and earlier slavery laws.
    So lets please leave off the superfluous and flowerly propoganda and deal with reality.
    Let us deal with the reality we live in a country that does not allow its popular religions to dictate public policy or law. Thank God.

    You tyhink men should be ablt to marry men? OK. Go ahead and show us why they ... well, they can get married can't they ... so go ahead and show us why our society to should pay to ENCOURAGE this practice? What does our society, not flowery speech writers, get out of it?
    Same thing we get out of men and women getting married. We get stability and that is good for any economy.

    The right not to be called a bigot?

    Well, that worked well for McCarthy too, only he used the word communist rather than bigot. Because fighting communism was a fundamental and inelaienable necessity under McCarthy right? Works that way does it?
    Some of it is bigoted and some is just fear of the unknown. Not everyone against integration was a bigot. Some just believed myths and didn't know what a change might bring.
    The only change I can see that complete embracing of homosexual marriage would effect is insurance companies and social programs could no longer discriminate against a huge swath of hard working individuals.
    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
    >>Abraham Lincoln

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  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral View Post
    Yep, judged by the same standard. Whether its me or you sticking our socket in an anus, its still wrong. WOuld you care to explain how being judged by that standard would offend me? Promiscuity you say? Yep, don't stick my socket in any random hole, animal, vegetable, or woman. And if I did? I would still be wrong wouldn't I?

    Amazing how standards work, and its funny that atheists, advocating the abandonment of them, think its Christians who fear them?

    Maybe you should read your Bible.
    A beam and a mote seem like two different things huh? So I think it doesn't matter if it's you yanking your beam around to women not your wife or your brother sticking his beam in another man's mote, Jesus is saying shut up about them and worry about your own business.

  5. #144

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    I guess it's because I only get the bad picture of things. Over 90% of scientists are Atheists or Agnostic. Hence it's hard for people with loads of evidence in front of them believe in something without evidence.
    And then I see a report on Liberty-University in Virginia and I ask myself: "Is this really a step forward or a step back?" and I ask myself "Why is deep faith good?"

    Those few examples ruin the whole experience for me. I was raised Chatolic but the anti-semitic views of my parents moved me away from faith, and I started to look at it as something that devides more people than brings together. Don't get me wrong! I've seen faith do a lot of good things, but I feel that the bad things I see because of it overweighs the good things. Weather it's hate/disapproval towards another religion, sexual orientation, sex or anything else.

  6. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by debateme View Post
    This shows (I believe) a complete misunderstanding of passages which reference Cain. Are you aware of a concerted effort by clergy, in our early Am history, to link a biblical reference to tabooing mixed marriages?
    Besides that Solomon wrote entire books in verse about the beauty of one wife who scholars think was definitely Black.
    Aware that it was wrong. Which is why I brought it up as rubbish.

    Human nature if only for survival, embraces cohabitation, grouping, and cooperation.
    If you are alone and want to be married you are not happy. If, as a person who desires cohabitation, you are limited to marrying only red headed girls when you've always abhorred them, you will be unhappy.
    The founding document of our country specifically names pursuit of happiness as one of its precepts.
    So, if screwing goats makes me happy ... well, society cannot pit reasoned limits on that pursuit? Anarchy is OK.

    Again, what benefits does our society garner by allowing same sex marriage? By equating gay marriage as the equal of heterosexual marriage? When the science pointedly says its not BTW.


    Yes you can choose a child through adoption, foster care and invitro fertilization.
    And none of that has any bearing on the statistical problems of raising children in different environments. the source of the child is irrelevant to the habitat.


    You can marry one person. And our laws of state and federals until quite recently, only specify quantity and majority age as criteria.
    You can't marry a dead gay person, or more than one gay or lesbian at a time under law. But constitutionally you can marry one person over 21 whatever either of your genders or skin colors may be.
    Making ridiculous state laws against gay marriage is like Jim Crow laws and earlier slavery laws.
    Well, then I guess you can indeed put limits on the pursuit of happiness. The question is why homosexuality should not be tolerated ... but encouraged.

    Let us deal with the reality we live in a country that does not allow its popular religions to dictate public policy or law. Thank God.
    Nor do we allow atheists or minorities to dictate policies. Nor do we allow people to bully others into policy by claiming everything that disagrees with them is bigotry.

    Same thing we get out of men and women getting married. We get stability and that is good for any economy.
    We do, eh? How?

    Some of it is bigoted and some is just fear of the unknown. Not everyone against integration was a bigot. Some just believed myths and didn't know what a change might bring.
    The only change I can see that complete embracing of homosexual marriage would effect is insurance companies and social programs could no longer discriminate against a huge swath of hard working individuals.
    But they can still descriminate against polygamists? Some of it is just called jumping on a band wagon because you fear being called a bigot.

  7. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAYTAG View Post
    A beam and a mote seem like two different things huh? So I think it doesn't matter if it's you yanking your beam around to women not your wife or your brother sticking his beam in another man's mote, Jesus is saying shut up about them and worry about your own business.
    And yet there he is in Luke 17 pointedly diagreeing with you ... It helps to have actually read the Bible.

  8. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihapiha View Post
    I guess it's because I only get the bad picture of things. Over 90% of scientists are Atheists or Agnostic. Hence it's hard for people with loads of evidence in front of them believe in something without evidence.
    And then I see a report on Liberty-University in Virginia and I ask myself: "Is this really a step forward or a step back?" and I ask myself "Why is deep faith good?"

    Those few examples ruin the whole experience for me. I was raised Chatolic but the anti-semitic views of my parents moved me away from faith, and I started to look at it as something that devides more people than brings together. Don't get me wrong! I've seen faith do a lot of good things, but I feel that the bad things I see because of it overweighs the good things. Weather it's hate/disapproval towards another religion, sexual orientation, sex or anything else.
    Where do you get your statistics?

    http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/...tists-say.html

    And the question is, if you only see it doing bad things might that be because that is what you are looking for? Or perhaps, the same site that miseducated you about the prevelance of atheism in science, might also only be focusing on the bad?

    Why is it that all these super educated people have no idea about guys like Saint Kolbe?

  9. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral View Post
    Once again, the ready resort to calling disagreement hate.

    Is anyone advocating that we drag homosexuals into a dungeon and beat them senseless? Is anyone advocating homosexual pogroms? Is anyone saying we should criminalize homosexuality? Or are we drawing a clear distinction between tolerating different opinions and behavior, and advocating behavior that isn't such a good thing for our society?
    Yes, yes, yes, ... no.
    The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the
    universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet,
    there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

    Escape will make me God.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral View Post
    Aware that it was wrong. Which is why I brought it up as rubbish.
    Agreed.

    So, if screwing goats makes me happy ... well, society cannot pit reasoned limits on that pursuit? Anarchy is OK.
    I already addressed that when I said "You can't marry a dead gay person, or more than one gay or lesbian at a time under law. But constitutionally you can marry one person over 21 whatever either of your genders or skin colors may be...."

    Again, what benefits does our society garner by allowing same sex marriage? By equating gay marriage as the equal of heterosexual marriage? When the science pointedly says its not BTW.
    I addressed that as you saw continuing down my post...


    And none of that has any bearing on the statistical problems of raising children in different environments. the source of the child is irrelevant to the habitat.
    Statistics point to environment in the categories of abuse, education of the parents, one vs two parent families, economy and minority status. I don't believe there are any credible statistics that suggest adverse affects on a child raised by two gay parents compared to straight parents. All other factors being equal.

    Well, then I guess you can indeed put limits on the pursuit of happiness.
    Oh yes and as we evolve in our thinking and study of our founding documents we see that excluding women, minorities and now gays/lesbians from our great experiment in freedom is hypocritical.

    The question is why homosexuality should not be tolerated ... but encouraged.
    To that question I can only quote some old spiritual saying, "All God's people gotta be free."

    Nor do we allow atheists or minorities to dictate policies.
    Our very existence as a country is entwined with the notion that the majority shall not bulldoze over the minority. Our first minorities were religiously persecuted. Next probably came the Baptists persecuted in our own land and then of course the Catholic Irish. We are always afraid of big groups who are different for we fear that they will "take over". However that same foundation allows us to eventually meld these groups into "Americans".
    Nor do we allow people to bully others into policy by claiming everything that disagrees with them is bigotry.
    I never met a bigot who was bullied but let me think about that a moment. Perhaps that is how a bigot feels deep inside? I don't know. I don't call people bigots unless I know them personally and have my facts. It's been a long time since I encountered raw bigotry personally. But maybe I am not so sensitive.


    We do, eh? How?
    One reason countries do better with families as opposed to single people is married people tend to put the family and community at the forefront of their efforts. A single person usually is so untethered with "nothing to lose" they'll be here one year and then pack up and go see what Guatemala is like or take a job as a waiter and then decide to apply for a college loan and live in a dorm. You must have SOME consistency throughout a population to ensure a good tax base, a proper number of workers, etc. Also protecting your family is a good instinct that helps the entire community reduce crime.

    But they can still descriminate against polygamists?
    Well that's a whole nuther story. The reason multiple marriage partners is discouraged I assume is the tax structure and the chaos it would cause in that area. It is purely a religious preference and yes while I like to say live and let live, I think polygamy would hurt our society much worse than monogamous gays or lesbians.

    Some of it is just called jumping on a band wagon because you fear being called a bigot.
    I wouldn't fear "being called a bigot" too much in regards to homosexuals (unless you encounter some really mean lesbians >>kidding) because homosexuals appear much more passive than American Blacks were when people who had always used it were in terror of dropping the "n" word.
    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
    >>Abraham Lincoln

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral View Post
    And yet there he is in Luke 17 pointedly diagreeing with you ... It helps to have actually read the Bible.
    Are you saying that gays trespass against you by like liking each other?

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