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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:50 PM
halla halla is offline
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coyote:
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It's so interesting how love to show quotes depicting the violent side of Islam but completely ignore the many quotes depicting the peaceful side.

That's usually referred to as cherry-picking.

Random samples out of cultural, literary and historical context aren't worth much but since you prefer that, here is my contribution.


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." (Matthew 10:34-39 ) - a quote by the way, used to justify the doctrine of a "just" war by Christians.
you give the same example time after time while i offer many examples of what you refer to as "cherry picking".

it seems coyote's tree is barren of cherries save that one example while mine has many examples.

here coyote, from the U.S.C. site source
i have read that eating cherries is good for the gout. there are enough cherries here to for any case of gout. if coyote can match his one matthew reference with a few others it would be appreciated.


The query [booty] generated the following matches:

Complete Sahih Bukhari

001.002.035 001.002.050 001.003.087 001.007.331 001.008.367 001.008.429 001.012.722 002.023.482 002.024.551 003.027.006 003.027.008 003.034.294 003.034.302 003.034.432 003.035.456 003.038.503 003.040.563 003.041.589 003.044.668 003.044.684 003.046.716 003.047.757 003.047.778 004.051.013 004.052.046 004.052.065 004.052.104 004.052.115 004.052.116 004.052.153 004.052.276 004.052.286 004.052.301 004.052.308 004.052.309 004.053.324 004.053.325 004.053.326 004.053.327 004.053.344 004.053.348 004.053.351 004.053.352 004.053.353 004.053.355 004.053.358 004.053.359 004.053.360 004.053.361 004.053.362 004.053.364 004.053.366 004.053.371 004.053.375 004.053.378 004.053.379 004.053.382 004.053.383 004.056.713 005.057.048 005.057.060 005.058.122 005.059.340 005.059.360 005.059.361 005.059.367 005.059.375 005.059.395 005.059.469 005.059.479 005.059.537 005.059.538 005.059.540 005.059.541 005.059.544 005.059.546 005.059.607 005.059.608 005.059.619 005.059.621 005.059.622 005.059.623 005.059.624 005.059.625 005.059.626 005.059.627 005.059.636 005.059.637 005.059.654 005.059.655 005.059.668 006.060.407 007.062.137 007.064.271 007.065.336 007.067.406 007.067.417 007.067.427 007.067.451 008.073.085 008.073.184 008.073.195 008.073.226 008.075.348 008.075.374 008.078.644 008.078.698 008.079.712 008.080.720 009.089.282 009.091.371 009.092.408 009.093.549 009.093.555 009.093.644 009.093.645

Complete Sahih Muslim

001.0022 001.0023 001.0025 001.0209 001.0210 001.0276 001.0278 005.2310 005.2313 008.3315 015.4046 019.4329 019.4330 019.4340 019.4342 019.4343 019.4346 019.4359 019.4360 019.4390 019.4392 019.4450 019.4456 019.4458 019.4460 019.4472 020.4505 020.4617 020.4619 020.4620 020.4626 020.4628 020.4690 020.4691 021.4768 041.6927

Partial Sunan Abu Dawud

001.0036 001.0313 014.2495 014.2521 014.2608 014.2670 014.2688 014.2692 014.2697 014.2699 014.2701 014.2702 014.2704 014.2706 014.2707 014.2709 014.2710 014.2717 014.2721 014.2731 014.2743 014.2744 014.2747 014.2749 014.2777 019.2955 019.2978 019.2993 019.3013 023.3504 027.3797 036.4273 041.5062

Complete Malik's Muwatta

009.9.18.56 021.21.1.2 021.21.3.10 021.21.3.11 021.21.6.16 021.21.8.16b 021.21.10.19 021.21.19.49a 031.31.16.28

booty is gained by marauding and plunder. it includes taking and raping slaves etc.

Last edited by halla; 02-16-2008 at 06:52 PM.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:33 PM
halla halla is offline
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oh, by the way, the hadiths are about the life and times of mohamed so the events of war and slaughter were about mohamed involvement in war and slaughter. i have asked you for sources citing similar behavior of jesus. i guess that is too much to ask. so you cite the same matthew 10:34-39 as your sole source of christian inspiration to violence when in fact it is open to interpretation where as mohamed activities as depicted in the hadiths are not.

if we learn from our experiences then mohamed must have taken a dark turn indeed as depicted from the contents of sura 9. would coyote like to compare the contents of the sermon on the mount with mohamed treatise on war/booty/slaving/slaughter??
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2008, 07:38 AM
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So royal.... you and halla are claiming that the Taliban represent mainstream Islam?

Because from where I sit, they represent an extreme, fundamantalist, medieval form of Islam that has its roots in the medieval, conservative, tribal cultures of the Afghan hinterlands.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by raytri View Post
So royal.... you and halla are claiming that the Taliban represent mainstream Islam?

Because from where I sit, they represent an extreme, fundamantalist, medieval form of Islam that has its roots in the medieval, conservative, tribal cultures of the Afghan hinterlands.
lol, while it may have its roots there, its branches seem to be in places like the WTC, bombings in Spain and Bali and London and Iraq, riots in France and Denmark, along with neck-strikings world-wide. And I might remind you too that A-Q actually has roots in SA, with its particularly stringent & unpleasant (for women & infidels at least) form of Islam.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by halla View Post
oh, by the way, the hadiths are about the life and times of mohamed so the events of war and slaughter were about mohamed involvement in war and slaughter. i have asked you for sources citing similar behavior of jesus. i guess that is too much to ask. so you cite the same matthew 10:34-39 as your sole source of christian inspiration to violence when in fact it is open to interpretation where as mohamed activities as depicted in the hadiths are not.

if we learn from our experiences then mohamed must have taken a dark turn indeed as depicted from the contents of sura 9. would coyote like to compare the contents of the sermon on the mount with mohamed treatise on war/booty/slaving/slaughter??
No - I compare results and I see no difference in the actions of fervent believers. The rest is words as evidenced by the ways people choose to interpret those cherries.

Open your eyes and see extremism (disguised as fundamentalism) for what it is: dangerous.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2008, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by concheet View Post
lol, while it may have its roots there, its branches seem to be in places like the WTC, bombings in Spain and Bali and London and Iraq, riots in France and Denmark, along with neck-strikings world-wide. And I might remind you too that A-Q actually has roots in SA, with its particularly stringent & unpleasant (for women & infidels at least) form of Islam.
So extremists know how to drive cars and buy airplane tickets. Ooooohhhh.

Saudi Arabia is, indeed an "extreme, fundamantalist, medieval" place.

Riots because somebody insulted their God/prophet/leader aren't exactly confined to Islam, and while unacceptable, don't indicate a Taliban-esque extremism. And the riots in France were more about cultural and economic issues than religious ones.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:09 AM
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BillyBob, Alicorn:

1. Get substantive, please.

2. Take it to another thread. It doesn't belong in this one.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
BillyBob, Alicorn:

1. Get substantive, please.

2. Take it to another thread. It doesn't belong in this one.
Raytri...You have the wrong person...I haven't posted in this thread at all...Except for this reply letting you know you're confusing me with another. LOL!
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobcat1 View Post
No, killing is never the answer. Change is.



No, reality is the only thing that is okay. Denying reality is not. No one is advocating killing here, unless you are. The question is one of tolerance, a character trait Islam lacks, in Israel, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and in Cheknya and Darfur.
How can you call them intolerant when we're the one attacking them? The only thing they're not tolerating is our attacks! And why should they tolerate those? Nobody else would!
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Daybreaker View Post
How can you call them intolerant when we're the one attacking them?
Um....they attacked us.


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The only thing they're not tolerating is our attacks! And why should they tolerate those? Nobody else would!
No more than we should tolerate their attacks. But of course, I hope we kill each and every one of them.
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