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Old 02-24-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by halla View Post
the problem is that to argue for mecca islam against medina islam requires a reversal of the concept of "abrogation" because the medina suras came after the mecca suras.
The explanation I've heard is that Muslims refused to fight back for the first 17 years, then finally did so out of necessity (i.e., a Byzantine army massing nearby to exterminate them). But they never attacked anyone who didn't attack (or was preparing to attack) first.

The historical accuracy of that paragraph is less important than whether that is how mainstream Islam views it.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
Again, it doesn't matter what happened 1000 years ago, the article I posted above are mosques in the US that openly call for jihad against our own nation. They sell books and literature advocating for the destruction of America and Israel. I have never heard of one Christian church advocating for our destruction, have you? And yet this article indicates it is more than just a handful of nuts, it is 3 out of 4 mosques, which is hardly a small faction.

No one disputes the verses in either book were violent in their meaning, it is the acting out that is the problem. The acting out by muslims in America have been minimal, and I would assign that to the fact that there are vast numbers of Americans that would take matters into their own hands if there were attacks being made in America at the rate they are in the middle east. We need to be vigilant and aggressive toward any group that advocates violence and spawns hate.
I think you're half-right.

First, where you're wrong (in my opinion) is in the idea that the past doesn't matter. Even if you don't think that Christianity is violent right now, you have to admit that there's been an awful lot of violent aggression in the name of Christianity over the last two thousand years. Does that make it right that Christians were attacked at times? How would you like those Christians to have been treated, versus how you think Muslims should be treated now?

Second, where I think you're right is in that we do need to pay a lot of attention to the here and now. And the here and now is that we've got Christian soldiers invading Muslim countries, not the other way around. You may feel attacked, but we're actually doing a lot more attacking than anybody else. Speaking of advocating violence and spawning hate. What do you think an invasion is?
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