Political Forum  

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 03:50 AM
JavaBlack's Avatar
JavaBlack JavaBlack is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Age: 29
Posts: 12,303
usa us michigan
JavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to beholdJavaBlack is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 81,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
In my post a few above I showed how you are wrong.
Yet you persist with the liberal, mindless, moral equivalence.
Your selective history while ignoring context does not stack up against historical anthropology which actually looks at what humans are rather than attempting to have urinating contests over particular cultures.
Culture is mutable.
If it doesn't work, it dies. So it changes based on the history and environment around it.
__________________
"It's never over... BOY!"
The Tall Man, Phantasm III
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 04:36 AM
B L Zeebub's Avatar
B L Zeebub B L Zeebub is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,379
european union
B L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to all
Credits: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concheet View Post
This is a question verbatim from a site called thereligionofpeace.com . The question is relevant to world peace, I believe. Do read further at the link provided, as it has support from the Koran, as well as from the Hadiths, and give your own opinion if you will.


Question:

Can Muslim citizens be loyal to a non-Muslim government?


Summary Answer:

Many are loyal, of course, but it is in spite of Islamic teaching. Unlike other faiths, Islam is not just a religion but a political system as well. The state is intended to be inseparable from religious rule. Islamic law, or Sharia, is complete and not designed to coexist with or be subordinate to other legal systems.

Muslims are not meant to be ruled by non-Muslims. The Qur'an is very clear that they are to fight unbelievers until Islamic rule is established over all the earth. This doesn't mean that everyone must be forced to become Muslim, but rather that everyone must submit to Muslim rule.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Qu...government.htm

Is this accurate or hype?
Having read the English version of the Koran about 35 yrs ago, two statements by Muhammad resonate with me.

1, Muhammad said that as a Muslim living in a non Muslim you should abide by the laws of the land you live in as if they were my word.

2, That if as a Muslim you do not like these laws you must not try to change them, but leave the country and find a more acceptable home.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Sickntiredofliblies's Avatar
Sickntiredofliblies Sickntiredofliblies is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas till I die!
Posts: 2,024
usa us texas
Sickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to beholdSickntiredofliblies is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 10,229
Default

Here's a question that is related to this topic:
What percentage of christians would support a president that is openly atheist?

The current secularism of our government is certainly not a fond choice that the christians have accepted. Nope, they've fought it as much as possible and still are. They want our public property to display religious law and candidates like Mike Huckleberry have stated their intentions that we amend the constitution to reflect "god's law". There are many other examples today of christians that wish to revert our society to the dark ages of blind faith without reason.
__________________
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 08:15 PM
i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 269
i.beletesri will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,358
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
Your selective history while ignoring context does not stack up against historical anthropology which actually looks at what humans are rather than attempting to have urinating contests over particular cultures.
Culture is mutable.
If it doesn't work, it dies. So it changes based on the history and environment around it.
Your inaccurate generalizations don't stack up against Anything.

Your post is absurd, deflecting, and Empty.

If you consider conquering and cleansing "working" - then Islam continues to be a viable/working culture.
Still cleansing the last Christians from their lands from Egypt to East Timor.
From Armenia to Kashmir.
From Lebanon to Sudan.

You're urinating into the wind.

Last edited by i.beletesri; 03-14-2008 at 08:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008, 10:39 PM
B L Zeebub's Avatar
B L Zeebub B L Zeebub is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,379
european union
B L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to all
Credits: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies View Post
Here's a question that is related to this topic:
What percentage of christians would support a president that is openly atheist?

The current secularism of our government is certainly not a fond choice that the christians have accepted. Nope, they've fought it as much as possible and still are. They want our public property to display religious law and candidates like Mike Huckleberry have stated their intentions that we amend the constitution to reflect "god's law". There are many other examples today of christians that wish to revert our society to the dark ages of blind faith without reason.
One hell of a lot of us in the UK, as a member of the Labour Party it made sick when Dubya said he prayed with Tiny Hare!
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:55 PM
concheet's Avatar
concheet concheet is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 606
usa
concheet will become famous soon enough
Credits: 7,767
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
One hell of a lot of us in the UK, as a member of the Labour Party it made sick when Dubya said he prayed with Tiny Hare!
I don't know who Tiny Hare is nor do I care, but the Christians believe that praying with someone is a help to both parties involved. They pray with murderers and prostitutes. It's the Jesus thing to do. Nothing at all wrong with it. Doesn't hurt a soul. Unlike:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...Op6Wk5km8bb7rw

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...98w8wD8VCHSSG1
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0bU...watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo#
"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2008, 08:05 PM
concheet's Avatar
concheet concheet is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 606
usa
concheet will become famous soon enough
Credits: 7,767
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
Having read the English version of the Koran about 35 yrs ago, two statements by Muhammad resonate with me.

1, Muhammad said that as a Muslim living in a non Muslim you should abide by the laws of the land you live in as if they were my word.

2, That if as a Muslim you do not like these laws you must not try to change them, but leave the country and find a more acceptable home.
Since your reading was so long ago, I suppose you cannot quote chapter and verse, though you remember.

Let me ask you this, do you see evidence for your #2. point in the real world today. Shall we say in Holland or Denmark or Norway, France or even Britain? It seems to me that Muslims there are quite displeased with some of the laws there and do not seem to be rushing back to Muslim countries in any great numbers.

In fact they are fanning out and building huge Moslem complexes in many major cities of the world. Saudi Arabia and the Wahhabi (sp) branch of Islam is especially busy spreading the word, I think. Don't you agree?
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0bU...watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo#
"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2008, 08:13 PM
concheet's Avatar
concheet concheet is offline
Sr. Correspondent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 606
usa
concheet will become famous soon enough
Credits: 7,767
Default

Quote:
“The Wahhabi Invasion of America”

Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam, estimates that since 1973, the Saudi government has spent an unbelievable $87B to promote Wahhabism in the United States, Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe. According to official Saudi information, Saudi funds have been used to build and maintain over 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges, 210 Islamic Centers wholly or partly financed by Saudi Arabia, and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia and Asia.

The Kingdom has fully or partially financed Islamic Centers in Los Angeles; San Francisco; Fresno; Chicago; New York; Washington; Tucson; Raleigh, N.C. and Toledo, Ohio as well as in Austria, Great Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia, Turkey, and even in some Muslim countries such as Morocco, Indonesia, Malaysia and Djibuti.

Saudi aid to Muslims abroad, however, comes with strings attached, and most of the recipient institutions end up promoting the Wahhabi version of Islam.
con't:
http://www.jfednepa.org/mark%20silverberg/wahhabi.html

I haven't read the book, but I would assume the facts stated are accurate.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0bU...watch_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo#
"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2008, 10:30 PM
B L Zeebub's Avatar
B L Zeebub B L Zeebub is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,379
european union
B L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to allB L Zeebub is a name known to all
Credits: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concheet View Post
con't:
http://www.jfednepa.org/mark%20silverberg/wahhabi.html

I haven't read the book, but I would assume the facts stated are accurate.
as an athiest, wahabists are rather like christian evangelicals, they interprete the book for there own self gratification.

Dubya seems to understand, maybe miracles do happen.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/ click on the words of bush

Last edited by B L Zeebub; 03-15-2008 at 10:31 PM. Reason: dyslexia
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:01 AM
shadowman shadowman is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 112
shadowman is on a distinguished road
Credits: 494
Default

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies View Post
Here's a question that is related to this topic:
What percentage of christians would support a president that is openly atheist?

The current secularism of our government is certainly not a fond choice that the christians have accepted. Nope, they've fought it as much as possible and still are. They want our public property to display religious law and candidates like Mike Huckleberry have stated their intentions that we amend the constitution to reflect "god's law". There are many other examples today of christians that wish to revert our society to the dark ages of blind faith without reason.
I for one believe society is becoming to removed from God's law. Our faith and religious beliefs help us to decide what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. Society is already too liberal, scientists are know cloning animals, next it will be humans. Abortion is legal now in many parts, prostitution is legal in some places, people taking unprescribed drugs has all become part of the norm in some societies. People of faith can also use reason, no one is looking to go back to the dark ages, but neither do I want to run headlong into anarchy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Yahoo Furl Reddit

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Muslim outrage? NOT!!!! BroncoBilly Religion 151 02-24-2008 08:27 PM
Muslim Brotherhood JP5 Current Events 9 09-19-2007 10:09 AM
OH NO!!! A Muslim?? MUNKO1970 Latest World News 28 09-15-2006 04:11 AM
My Muslim Neighbor JP5 Political Opinions & Beliefs 17 04-24-2006 06:27 PM
Another muslim I think I like SedyAlpha Current Events 8 08-27-2004 07:37 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4