This, nearly 6 years old, but still relevant.

An airline pilot challenges
Arab Muslims in America
July 24, 2002
By John Maniscalco


You worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On Sept. 11, 19 ARAB MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants and children's mothers.

So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and the Arab Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks and living in our communities under the protection of our Constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those very same good neighbors and children? The events of Sept. 11 changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with all of its religions, with all of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know whether or not you love America.
Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it?

Or do you pray that Allah will destroy it in one of your "jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need you to start letting me know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. And no more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am only interested in action. What will you do for America – our great country – at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America." I want to see young Arab Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.

The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now!

But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.

The very few Arab Muslim representatives that have appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating.
They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States prove who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed toward them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Gadhafi, Hussein, Farrakhan and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism and intolerance?

It matters little how good Islam should be if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Muhammad incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death and suicide.
A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members defended Johnny Cochran and O. J. Simpson after the latter butchered his wife and murdered an innocent friend. A form whose members (some as young as 5 years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore?

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner or celebrate Christmas? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the only civilized democratic nation in the entire Middle East? And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here?

Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave.
I want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE!

We will never give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will never allow the attacks of Sept. 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest Constitution in the world.

I want to know where every Arab Muslim in this country stands, and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very Constitution that is protecting you and your family.
I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance. It is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand.

Until then ... you worry me.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28386

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEB0S...eature=related

Can Muslim citizens be loyal to a non-Muslim government?

Idiot.

Can Jewish citizens be loyal to a non-Jewish government?

Can atheist citizens be loyal to a non-atheist government?

Can Christian citizens be loyal to a non-Christian government?

Can Catholic citizens be loyal to a non-Catholic government?

etc. etc...

Maybe it depends on the Muslim/Jew/Christian/Catholic/Atheist etc.

lol What an ignorant thread.

*Beaming out contempt vibes*

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon

No Yours is the Idiotic Position

Since app 90% of Jews and Christians are Secular -- and the near reverse is True in Islam:

Manji
"....The trouble with Islam today is that literalism is mainstream.

Even moderate Muslims take the Koran as the final word of God: unfiltered, unchanged and unchangeable. This supremacy complex inhibits us from asking hard questions about what happens when faith becomes dogma. Such a path can lead only to a dead end of more violence....

There are no Christian countries where people are executed for Apostasy .. the True Treason in Islam.
LOL.... one can only imagine the religous experimentation so common among the Western young - if tried in Arab countries.

Since, In Islam, Unlike others, RELIGION COMES FIRST even Within THEIR countries (much less ours) .. and Islam is an All-Encompassing and Political Philosophy- not just which building you go to on Sunday.
Nor are Hands cut off, or people stoned to death-- or 'eye-for-an-eye' justice even in the one OT Country- where they don't even have the death penalty for terrorists.

The post above is the unbearably Obtuse but usual work of vacuous PC.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEB0S...eature=related

How do you ignore a specific user with this forum software? This clown, votetheoneyouhatetheleast, has nothing worthwhile to say, is only a troll I would like to not have to even scan.

Thanks

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

True, and there are no Christian/Catholic/Jewish/Athiest etc. countries that suffer the same kind of poverty and discrimination. Didn't realize I need to point that out, sorry.

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon

You can do it in your profile. Feel free.

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Manu Chao - Bongo Bong

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde

"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for wise." - Sir Francis Bacon

Of course because it's a generalization. Still organized religions have opposed scientific and medical advances throughout our history and still today.

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Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine

Well, good point. I guess technically any law we create is natural since we are a part of nature. But if laws are enforced using false pretenses as in claiming such laws are a deity's requirement then they are simply illogical. Since no such deity has been proven to exist, and the only proof we have is a book that has been rewritten multiple times by questionable people. It would serve humanity better to apply logical reasoning to laws.

The bible does say that the earth is unmovable and flat. The religion is based on many false statements that were made before they could understand subjects they were writing about.
Not really. The Germans stopped their anti-semitic ways almost immediately after losing the war. Laws were enacted to prevent it. The Vatican however took over 300 years to finally admit that Galileo was right and they were wrong. Pardon me if I hold that against them.

It is a sin. Some individual catholics today might no longer believe it to be but the church says that it is:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm#2088
The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

The age of the planet defined by the bible conflicts with the amount of time required for evolution. Whenever ancient fossils were first discovered in rock, christians had quite a tough time explaining that.
Bloodshed at the hands of religious people can be excused by their god's will. It has been. I don't think Christians are reflecting back on the stories of genocide in the bible that they committed and regretting it. But secularists cannot justify their transgressions against humanity in that way. You won't find many atheists justifying Stalin's genocide but you will find plenty of theists that justify their evil acts.
You suggested that we should assume that a creator exists:
"The vast mysteries of the universe should only confirm our belief in the certainty of its Creator. I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science."

There's no reason to jump to the conclusion that a creator exists. To assume something like that will just sidetrack our study for the truth.

These alleged laws were written down in the bible thousands of years after he supposedly gave them. Humans wrote them while claiming he defined them long long ago. Pardon me for being skeptical of them....

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Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine

There's been far more extinctions than just dinosaurs and buffalo. Studies show that over 90 percent of the species to ever have existed have become extinct. The changes you mention were not observed by the species. They were oblivious to the changes and died out accordingly. Humans have more developed brains and we can at least realize changes (sometimes) and act accordingly. Of course that does not mean we can survive every change that is thrown at us.

True, and they still are.

Yep, it's all about power and control.


No, it's a process that has and still is happening. Evolution has been observed. While we cannot explain every detail about it yet, it has been proven to be happening.

That really depends on which people you are talking about. Many do believe the literal interpretation of the old testament. I'd say most do but I don't have stats to back that up. Why would they believe the new testament and not the old? The reason the old testament is irrelevant to christian practices of today is because Jesus's life and death changed everything.

All good points to be made. More and more religious beliefs continue to fall apart as we progress and learn.



The essence you are trying to define is found within our skulls.



True, true.
Ahh but us secularists cannot justify these actions rationally. We can only condemn them today. The same cannot be said about the atrocities carried out in the name of a god. Those atrocities are still justified today by that god's followers. One could say that a person like Stalin considered himself to be somewhat of a god. A truly evil person indeed.

People can do great things no matter what religious beliefs they have or don't have. One could say that the Vatican definitely could have done more during WWII.
Is it christianity that deserves such recognition? After all, it was christians that enslaved them.
Good things can be done by all types of people. With that said it's not out of the question that in some instances churches have gained followers by offering them the reward of humanitarianism. A trade off where both parties gained something.

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Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine