I am a member of the LDS church - Page 2

usgrant7 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link S.

I would not vote for anyone based on their religion that would be unwise in many aspects. Mitt may be mormon but I am not rooting for him on that basis I lived in Massachusetts when he was governor and he lead fairly and without prejudice.

It's interesting that you seem unwilling to answer these questions I have raised.

But it is also interesting that out of the 100's of Mormon’s I have invited into my house to give an answer for the faith that is within them, it all comes down to that "burning in my bosom" response. Decisions made on some ethereal emotional sensation.

I am honest enough to say that I would absolutely vote or not-vote for someone, based on their religion. Would you vote for a WICCAN? Would you vote for a Satanist? Would you vote for a Krishna or a Mooney?

But an even more important question...

Your faith wouldn't let you support an "Apostate Evangelical" for President. What does the word "apostate" actually mean? Hmmm? Tell us how the Mormon's consider all other "religions" as the reason why God abandoned humanity for nearly 2 millennia. I believe you call it, the "Great Apostasy", which is why Joseph Smith started his own church to begin with. Because the "angel" told him that the true church was to be here in the Americas... Shhhhhhhh. Here are the mystical "golden tablets" that no one else can see...

Mitt Romney was unfit for the office because he is susceptible to believing such wives tales and holding them as sacred. That's what made other bad leaders make poor decisions. We need someone as cynical as John McCain, because of all the Joseph Smiths out there preaching a Gospel of "only us". Mitt couldn't deliver anything to the American people but a "burning in his bosom" and the American people cant trust that.

Oh, and one more thing... Most people from "Massachussettes" can spell Massachusetts... And most "mormons", capitalize Mormons. Just a side bar...

Link S. · #12 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

When the issue of Mitt's faith became a campaign issue, we all wondered how firmly grounded he was. The reason why that question was asked, was that we saw the LDS church spin and mince words on matters of his faith. Why did they lie about the "Lucifer and Jesus" being spirit brothers - issue. Why didn't they just come right out and say it. The missionaries I had over, certainly didn't mind talking about it.

Joseph Smith stated categorically that Jesus and Satan were offspring of the same parents. Mitt ducked those questions because he knew it would become a national campaign issue and he would never get elected if he publically commented on the tenants of his religion. How do you answer that?

It is common knowledge that people are not perfect and yes we do believe they are both sons of god but one fell and the other was exalted.

Do you believe that only Mormon's will ascend to the third heaven? (most close to God)

Absolutely not we believe that anyone that is sealed to their family for eternity and does all that is asked of them on this earth will attain the third degree of glory.

Do you believe that only Mormon's will be "gods" of their own planets, when they die?

Not all mormons are perfect but ask would it make sense to go through life with all the trials and temptation doing all that god would have you do only to sing praises to him for all eternity?

Why did the "lost book of Abraham" turn out to be a hoax? Yet it is still trusted as sacred by the LDS church?

I am sorry but I do not remember any book of Abraham. Maybe you mean the manuscript RSVP.

Why do Mormon's believe that being black (having dark skin) was a curse of God?

The darker skin was gods way of showing in old testament times the descendents of cain who was cursed to the earth. We believe now that the black race has become more acceptant of god so the skin color doesn't matter anymore. Sorry I will be back in about five hours to finish.

Do you ever believe that plural wives was a "God given divine right"?
Did you ever believe that native American’s came from Israel?
Why is it that Mormon's have an excuse for the COMPLETE lack of historical, archeological evidence of the BOM, DOC, and POGP?
How is it that you can offer us a candidate who has committed murder by proxy, by endorsing abortion, would ever stand to stay in the Mormon Church? Once enlightened, isn't it "outer darkness" to those who committed such a sin?
Why did Joseph Smith defraud thousands of people in IL on a phony banking scheme?
Why is it that the "Hill Camorra" pageant is a celebration of an event that NEVER happened? No evidence. No evidence. No evidence.
Why did the President of the Mormon Church counsel Mitt to pull out of the race? Why were they scared of the national media descending on Salt Lake, to put the "Great Temple" under the microscope?
Tell me these things... Help us all to understand...
Why did Brigham Young order John D. Lee (convicted and hanged for the crime) to attack and massacre over 100 settlers in Utah, in 1857? Why is he still venerated by the LDS church?

And if you are going to use spin and not hard facts, don't bother. People in here will expose you.

If a man, running for the nations highest office, has such a loose connection with facts, about the foundation of his "faith", how can we trust him with a much more exacting job?

(My prediction is this: you will give us a bunch of FARMS links, which don't say anything at all about these issues directly, and you wont spend any quality time addressing these questions yourself. Which is exactly why Mitt will never make it into the oval office.)

I will answere this later.

Link S. · #13 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by usgrant7
When the issue of Mitt's faith became a campaign issue, we all wondered how firmly grounded he was. The reason why that question was asked, was that we saw the LDS church spin and mince words on matters of his faith. Why did they lie about the "Lucifer and Jesus" being spirit brothers - issue. Why didn't they just come right out and say it. The missionaries I had over, certainly didn't mind talking about it.

Joseph Smith stated categorically that Jesus and Satan were offspring of the same parents. Mitt ducked those questions because he knew it would become a national campaign issue and he would never get elected if he publically commented on the tenants of his religion. How do you answer that?

It is common knowledge that people are not perfect and yes we do believe they are both sons of god but one fell and the other was exalted.

Do you believe that only Mormon's will ascend to the third heaven? (most close to God)

Absolutely not we believe that anyone that is sealed to their family for eternity and does all that is asked of them on this earth will attain the third degree of glory.

Do you believe that only Mormon's will be "gods" of their own planets, when they die?

Not all mormons are perfect but ask would it make sense to go through life with all the trials and temptation doing all that god would have you do only to sing praises to him for all eternity?

Why did the "lost book of Abraham" turn out to be a hoax? Yet it is still trusted as sacred by the LDS church?

I am sorry but I do not remember any book of Abraham. Maybe you mean the manuscript RSVP.

Why do Mormon's believe that being black (having dark skin) was a curse of God?

The darker skin was gods way of showing in old testament times the descendents of cain who was cursed to the earth. We believe now that the black race has become more acceptant of God so the skin color doesn't matter anymore. It was a circumstantial curse which meant that as long as one circumstance was true the curse would exist.

Do you ever believe that plural wives was a "God given divine right"?

Polygamy was once practiced in our church because the U.S. drove our ancestors out for their beliefs and killed many Mormon husbands and fathers. Polygamy was instituted by God at that time to ensure that the women and children would be taken care of. But it wasn't a free for all one had to council with his first wife and the prophet in order to take on another wife.

Did you ever believe that native American’s came from Israel?

I believe that American's descended from people who once lived in Jeruselem if that is what you mean. We believe that God told them how to get to America across the ocean because Jeruselem was going to be destroyed which it was by the Palestinians around that same time. There is nothing saying that Lehi was from that area though he just lived there for a while.

Why is it that Mormon's have an excuse for the COMPLETE lack of historical, archeological evidence of the BOM, DOC, and POGP?

Well the Doctrine and Covenants are modern revelation recieved by the prophets in latter days. And if you read the Book of Mormon you will see the explanation for the absence of certain evidence of it's and the Pearl of Great Price's existance. Mainly the tribe of Nephi having turned so wicked two hundred years after the presence of Jesus in the Americas were wiped out by the Lamanite tribe who were more righteous than they.

Yet the Lamanites were tribal and did not have a set language so they did not record what happened at that time. Later though one can see the remnants of great civilizations in the Americas. Does this mean ALL native americans were descendents of Lehi? No just some. Hence the reason for a lack of evidence supporting the gold plates as they were hidden from these tribes.

How is it that you can offer us a candidate who has committed murder by proxy, by endorsing abortion, would ever stand to stay in the Mormon Church?

I do not agree with Mitts stance on Abortion yet all are free to have their own opinions on that subject. I do not support abortion as it is the killing of children of god before they have a chance to gain a mortal body.

Once enlightened, isn't it "outer darkness" to those who committed such a sin?

Not really Outer darkness is for those who freely and openly rebel agianst god in the knowledge that he exists. Murderers go to the third degree of glory which is likened unto the stars. This is the place for those who cheated and murdered in no cause. I am not sure how god sees abortion but those who do not know celestial laws will not be judged by them.

Why did Joseph Smith defraud thousands of people in IL on a phony banking scheme?

The bank failed because the people Joseph had placed in charge of it stole and lied. These people faced the consequences when Joseph warned them to stop or the bank would fail miserably yet they didn't listen and it failed.

Why is it that the "Hill Camorra" pageant is a celebration of an event that NEVER happened? No evidence. No evidence. No evidence.

Oh there is plenty of evidence if you consider DTMS? (Does this make sense) Does it make sense that Jesus would preach to the people around Isreal and not people across the sea. Through the BOM we know that this event happened and through native american tales. I suggest you read "He walked the Americas" which gives light to the subject. Also research Quetzalcoatle in Native American Folklore.

Why did the President of the Mormon Church counsel Mitt to pull out of the race?

The Prophet does not give such counsel it is up to the person running and no one else. the Prophet will not give any counsel to those who want it in running for office for this would be unwise. If someone running for office needs spiritual advice that doesn't include their run for office then the Prophet will give them advice.

Why were they scared of the national media descending on Salt Lake, to put the "Great Temple" under the microscope?

I wouldn't say scared I would say that the media has been less than fair to the mormon church in recent shows and documentaries so we don't want people to disrespect the house of the Lord.

Tell me these things... Help us all to understand...
Why did Brigham Young order John D. Lee (convicted and hanged for the crime) to attack and massacre over 100 settlers in Utah, in 1857?

I knew I would come to this and I ask you to keep an open mind. Brigham Young did not order the Mountain Meadows Massacre. A group of people who were excommunicated from the church claimed that they shot a group of people under the direct orders of Brigham Young. If you want I can pull some literature up to show you.

Brigham young was Enraged at this clear defiance of the very essnce of our religion and these people were punished by the law and more so by God.

Why is he still venerated by the LDS church?

And if you are going to use spin and not hard facts, don't bother. People in here will expose you.

I welcome any logical debate on my answer's and do accept any challenge to their validity. I do hope, though, that all who respond will respect my religion and only fight with facts and not insults.

If a man, running for the nations highest office, has such a loose connection with facts, about the foundation of his "faith", how can we trust him with a much more exacting job?

Let me put it this way the Vice President doesn't do too many important things and yes I am disappointed with Mitts wavering but no one is perfect. And I am not saying that he should be in a high position I am just saying he might be.

(My prediction is this: you will give us a bunch of FARMS links, which don't say anything at all about these issues directly, and you wont spend any quality time addressing these questions yourself. Which is exactly why Mitt will never make it into the oval office.)

I am sorry you feel this way but you are entitled to your own thoughts and Ideas. If I have been Unclear I would be happy to clear myself up.

Link S. · #14 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies

It's a funny little cult.

I have heard that many times before but I have yet to see proof we are a cult.

Link S. · #15 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

Hmmm... What hard data do you have that supports this conclusion? What do you mean by "lead fairly and without prejudice"? Help me to understand.

While in Massachusettes (I never could spell it correctly) we had over 250 lawyers on the state payroll under Kerry. When Mitt came in these were all cleared out (We were only supposed to to have about 20) Saving MA alot of money that was put towards renovation.

Mitt went a whole year without pay and put all of his effort into reforming schools and public services.

He is anti-gay yet when the issue came up he said he would go with his constituents and what the majority wanted.

Link S. · #16 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

It's interesting that you seem unwilling to answer these questions I have raised.

I am sorry but I do not have alot of time during the day to review all the posts I recieve but when I do I come here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

But it is also interesting that out of the 100's of Mormon’s I have invited into my house to give an answer for the faith that is within them, it all comes down to that "burning in my bosom" response. Decisions made on some ethereal emotional sensation.

Some people do not know how best to explain the feelings when they know something to be absolute truth and still more people don't know how to explain why I hope I can help with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

I am honest enough to say that I would absolutely vote or not-vote for someone, based on their religion. Would you vote for a WICCAN? Would you vote for a Satanist? Would you vote for a Krishna or a Mooney?

I guess it would all depend on how involved in it they are. If they would be the best person to run the country and not allow thier religion to influence them in negative ways than I would find their platform. I most likely wouldn't vote for a Satan supporter because in no way shape or form would they ever be the best person for the Job. I am also sorry I do not believe I have ever heard of a Krishna or Mooney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

But an even more important question...

Your faith wouldn't let you support an "Apostate Evangelical" for President. What does the word "apostate" actually mean? Hmmm? Tell us how the Mormon's consider all other "religions" as the reason why God abandoned humanity for nearly 2 millennia. I believe you call it, the "Great Apostasy", which is why Joseph Smith started his own church to begin with. Because the "angel" told him that the true church was to be here in the Americas... Shhhhhhhh. Here are the mystical "golden tablets" that no one else can see...

An apostate is one who has denounced his religion on a highly questionable basis. God did not withdraw from everyone because of their religion it was because people got so set in their ways and would not adhere to the promptings of the spirit. When someone is not listening to you do you stick around or do you find someone who will honestly and openly listen to what you had to say.

During this time God did not completely withdraw his his light as the holy ghost was allowed to inspire righteous men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

Mitt Romney was unfit for the office because he is susceptible to believing such wives tales and holding them as sacred. That's what made other bad leaders make poor decisions. We need someone as cynical as John McCain, because of all the Joseph Smiths out there preaching a Gospel of "only us". Mitt couldn't deliver anything to the American people but a "burning in his bosom" and the American people cant trust that.

Unfortunately god gives a witness only to those who truly believe on his name and not for people who say, "give me a sign that I might believe". I believe that Joseph smith was a prophet of god sent by god and by his son to reestablish his church in modern days. I believe that the book of mormon is another witness of christ and his dealings in america. I also believe that Thomas S. Monson is the ordained prophet of god in these latter days.

God didn't leave us he gave us time to think and to grow and when Joseph smith Prayed in the sacred grove He saw god the father and his son Jesus christ whole and separate with flesh and blood bodies that were celestialized. It was time for the church to be restored on earth the way that Jesus had started and that men had perverted.

I also know that if one prays sincerely nothing doubting willing to open his mind and heart to god he will recieve a witness of him that will be undeniable and Sacred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

Oh, and one more thing... Most people from "Massachussettes" can spell Massachusetts... And most "mormons", capitalize Mormons. Just a side bar...

Interesting I didn't know.

catzmeow · #17 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 12:34 PM

Please don't encourage these transparent attempts at prostelytizing.

Link S. · #18 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catzmeow

Please don't encourage these transparent attempts at prostelytizing.

I was not trying to hide anything if you believe I am proselytizing I guess I am but I do hope that you take into account the discussion behind my sayings. I am just giving a response the best I know how.

justabubba · #19 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies

It's a funny little cult.

no disagreement there, but it is a virtuous segment of our society. i admire the LDS members' commitment to raising strong families and having good character. those values seem to be in decline in American society

Link S. · #20 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justabubba

no disagreement there, but it is a virtuous segment of our society. i admire the LDS members' commitment to raising strong families and having good character. those values seem to be in decline in American society

Thanks but will someone explain to me how we are a cult I seem to be a little in the dark here.

I do agree in fact not so long ago our Prophet of the time Gordon B. Hinckley issued "The Family a Proclamation to the World" Explaining how it is more important now than ever to keep families together and to form a safeguard from the evils that try to tear the family apart. I will try to find my copy and quote a little even if your not a Mormon one could appreciate the advise.

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