I am a member of the LDS church - Page 23

Link S. · #**221** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote

Give Mormanism 2000 years to develop and it will sound just as credible as Christianity I'm sure.

It has had 2000 years to develop from the time christ left the earth to now.

Coyote · #**222** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link S.

It has had 2000 years to develop from the time christ left the earth to now.

Not exactly. The critical time period is from Joseph Smith onwards. That would be like giving Judaism the ages of the OT.

Either way, people who tend to make fun of it don't realize how ridiculous their own theology sounds:

"The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree..."

People somehow except that at face value without batting an eye.

Link S. · #**223** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixtellor

A Mathmatical model that works every time IS empirical.

You make a mathmatical prediction about the behavior of particles, then you can test that theory.

Why do you think we are building bigger and better super colliders?
Once they complete some of the much larger colliders, people with various theories will be proven right or wrong.

In the end after Much application of the Scientific Method, one of the theories will emerge as True. "

You believe that if something is tested and comes out the same every time is proved to be correct well I have prayed many times as to the validity of the church and every time I have gotten the same answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixtellor

This highly illogical piece of information makes perfect sense coming from you. "

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixtellor

My answer "NO - I require empirical evidence"
Your answer "Yes - as long as you say you have magic rocks, I believe EVERYTHING you tell me"

Me "Even if you are not allowed to see the rocks or see any evidence that what Mr. Smith says is true?"

Your reply "Yes - Magic rocks that I am not allowed too see is all the proof I need""

As long as I can see them someday I am content yes I am sure that it would be after proving myself worthy of it but someday I will see them and maybe you will too who knows. and please stop referring to them as magic rocks for they are not they are the Urimm and Thummim. If you don't want to write this then just say seer stones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixtellor

P.S. I thought of another way to prove beyond doubt that your religion is true. Make a new language and share it with only 12 other people who are not members of your church and identify themselves as skeptical. Write up all the rules and laws of your language. (nouns, symbols, past present, etc)

Write 1 paragraph using the new language and give it to the people who supposedly have magic rocks. If they can successfully translate the paragraph your religion is true. If they can't (hint: they cant) then they will make up some lame excuse - "its bad to test God" "God is sick right now" "the rocks only work for languages before 1932 - hence they can't translate Klingon"

The seer stones will translate any language God is never sick nor dead but it is bad to test god. Once again if you require physical evidence for evrything you have come to the wrong place this is a theological discussion not an empiricle one.

Link S. · #**224** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote

Not exactly. The critical time period is from Joseph Smith onwards. That would be like giving Judaism the ages of the OT.

Judaism does start from the old testament. the critical time period is from when Jesus walked the earth until now for this is the church that he started when he was on earth and that was restored by him through Joseph Smith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote

"The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree..."

People somehow except that at face value without batting an eye.

I do agree with this statement to a certain extent it doesn't make sense that Christ would be his father considering the vast amount of Biblical evidence that proves otherwise. But there is a certain amount of truth to the last part that The master scientist did surgery and genetically altered the DNA of a man to create a woman. And a snake that could speak human is not so ludicrous if you believe in the bark translators they have now but on a more sophisticated basis.

Link S. · #**225** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

Ulysses S. Grant was innocently used by a con-man to defraud people of $250,000.00 of their hard earned money, back in the 1800's, that was no small chunk of change. He spent the rest of his life, down to his dying day, to pay them back. Are you telling me that dedicating your life to paying those people back, wasn't worth it, for the prophet of the LDS church??? HA! So much for the righteous few...

Show me one story about an LDS church official looking those families up and paying them back the money their employee stole.

If the families of these people want their money back than they can talk to the first presidency. As long as they have proof of their inheritance.

Link S. · #**226** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by constitution101

I have a mormon friend and with easter around the corner my wife wanted to give her a Easter card, but we arnt quite sure how mormons feel about easter, can you tell me?

Mormons feel about easter the way many other christians feel about easter so I guess it doesn't matter the card.

usgrant7 · #**227** (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link S.

If the families of these people want their money back than they can talk to the first presidency. As long as they have proof of their inheritance.

I tell you what, I am going to get the names of the people who were defrauded, and inquire as to whether or not they got their money back. And when I am done, I will let you know the results.

Thank you.

Ixtellor · #**228** (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

You believe that if something is tested and comes out the same every time is proved to be correct well I have prayed many times as to the validity of the church and every time I have gotten the same answer.

Two questions:
1) You will think that this is a complete lie and that I am making it up, but it is entirely true.
In college I used to drink a LOT - 5 nights a week minimum. This resulted in countless hangovers and many episodes of throwing up. As a joke initally I would "pray to porcelain gods for mercy and beg to stop throwing up"
It turns out that after I said this I would 90% of the time stop throwing up.
So it became part of my routine and I would pray to the porcelain gods every time I was feeling ill and the vast majority of the time I would feel better.

Does this mean that porcelain gods exist and they have powers? Or is there another explanation?

2) What EXACTLY are you praying and what EXACTLY is happening.
Are you hearing voices in your head? Can you suddenly read chinese?

3) Is is possible that the god Vishnu is all caring and has zero ego. And that because you are a good person, he answers your prayers because he wants you to feel safe and happy? That he doesn't care if you give him credit as long as you are a good person. That he doesn' care what you worship or in what manner provided you are a good person. And being a god devoid of an ego he answers your prayers and makes you feel connected to him - Vishnu?

If this is NOT possible, please explain why.

Quote:

As long as I can see them someday I am content yes I am sure that it would be after proving myself worthy of it but someday I will see them and maybe you will too who knows.

Two things:
1) You might be shown a rock someday, you will call it the seer stone. You will be most impressed. (It is brown and shaped like an egg)
2) You will NEVER ever ever ever ever be allowed to use the seer stone to decifer anything. If you only remember one thing from your entire experience here, I want you to remember this. You will never in your lifetime be allowed to use the stones. I guarentee it.

Ixtellor

P.S. Glass looker - very interesting stuff and well documented.

Sickntiredofliblies · #**229** (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link S.

You believe that if something is tested and comes out the same every time is proved to be correct well I have prayed many times as to the validity of the church and every time I have gotten the same answer.

If your prayers are always being answered, you have not been praying for the right things. Please do yourself and the rest of us a favor and pray for a perfect world in which we are all peaceful and prosperous and all problems cease to exist. Surely this is possible since prayer can prove your facts.

bhkad · #**230** (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usgrant7

When the issue of Mitt's faith became a campaign issue, we all wondered how firmly grounded he was. The reason why that question was asked, was that we saw the LDS church spin and mince words on matters of his faith. Why did they lie about the "Lucifer and Jesus" being spirit brothers - issue. Why didn't they just come right out and say it. The missionaries I had over, certainly didn't mind talking about it.

Joseph Smith stated categorically that Jesus and Satan were offspring of the same parents. Mitt ducked those questions because he knew it would become a national campaign issue and he would never get elected if he publically commented on the tenants of his religion. How do you answer that?

Do you believe that only Mormon's will ascend to the third heaven? (most close to God)
Do you believe that only Mormon's will be "gods" of their own planets, when they die?
Why did the "lost book of Abraham" turn out to be a hoax? Yet it is still trusted as sacred by the LDS church?
Why do Mormon's believe that being black (having dark skin) was a curse of God?
Do you ever believe that plural wives was a "God given divine right"?
Did you ever believe that native American’s came from Israel?
Why is it that Mormon's have an excuse for the COMPLETE lack of historical, archeological evidence of the BOM, DOC, and POGP?
How is it that you can offer us a candidate who has committed murder by proxy, by endorsing abortion, would ever stand to stay in the Mormon Church? Once enlightened, isn't it "outer darkness" to those who committed such a sin?
Why did Joseph Smith defraud thousands of people in IL on a phony banking scheme?
Why is it that the "Hill Camorra" pageant is a celebration of an event that NEVER happened? No evidence. No evidence. No evidence.
Why did the President of the Mormon Church counsel Mitt to pull out of the race? Why were they scared of the national media descending on Salt Lake, to put the "Great Temple" under the microscope?
Tell me these things... Help us all to understand...
Why did Brigham Young order John D. Lee (convicted and hanged for the crime) to attack and massacre over 100 settlers in Utah, in 1857? Why is he still venerated by the LDS church?

And if you are going to use spin and not hard facts, don't bother. People in here will expose you.

If a man, running for the nations highest office, has such a loose connection with facts, about the foundation of his "faith", how can we trust him with a much more exacting job?

(My prediction is this: you will give us a bunch of FARMS links, which don't say anything at all about these issues directly, and you wont spend any quality time addressing these questions yourself. Which is exactly why Mitt will never make it into the oval office.)

You know that people who don't believe in God at all think your criticisms of mormons are like the pot calling the kettle black, right?

Atheists think ALL religions are fairy tales.

So, keep that in mind before you start pointing fingers at others' religions.

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