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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2008, 07:06 PM
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Default Here's another way of looking at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
In other words, do what i say, not what I do.
If everything I said was the absolute correct thing to say and you were wondering if you should take a job, buy a stock, or just plain stay home from work one day. Wouldn't it be wise for you to consult me? Especially if you were not sure of the outcome?

So when God says: Do as I say... I think you would be a fool to ignore him or go back on what he said. It just doesn't make sense.

But if there is no God, why even worry about it? Just go on about your business and when you die, if you march off into oblivion, so much the better for you.

However, if I am right and you are wrong, and you have not diligently sought after the truth of the matter. You can spend an eternity angry at the Rule-Maker, completely justified in your own mind, that you did the right thing. There are many fools who will spend an eternity suffering on a conjured form of principle. Not because they wished to be free or that God is actually wrong, but because they were foolish enough to think they had a better answer than the God of the Universe. They were foolish enough to think that they could accuse a perfect system of being flawed.

The Bible says: "The fool says in his heart that there is no God."

Just because you can articulate a problem, does not mean there is one.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SenaxFlatulus View Post
You're attempting to impose your understanding on a concept that defies understanding. You're applying your own knowledge base to this situation, yet your knowledge base is limited. Man is limited.

God is bound by no law or boundary. You're creating a rationale that explains your understanding. Yet you fail to consider or accept that there could be possibilities beyond your own understanding.

Look at your signature line. "True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know."
First you say I'm attempting to impose an understanding on something that defies understanding, then you push forward your own understanding? come now.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by usgrant7 View Post
God is not bound by His Words, His words are binding. There is a difference.
A difference that is irrelevant. I stated there is a truth beyond god which god has no ability to change. God is bound by logical possibilities which is true a priori.
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If God says a certain thing, that which he says can only be equal to Him, because he is the ultimate authority, there is none higher. Therefore the only thing that binds God, is God. Nothing higher, so therefore he can only swear by himself. He chooses to make his word, equal to himself, because it is the highest form of confidence. Math has >, =, and <.
Highest authority only in that he has the greatest understanding of that which is greater than himself. He swears by perfect knowledge and rational, yet both knowledge and rational require external standards to have any meaning.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 07:04 PM
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Wink I beg to differ...

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Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
A difference that is irrelevant...
If everything you said, came true, wouldn't it be difficult, if not impossible to lie. What if you were the ultimate benevolent ruler? So not only everything you said was true, but it was perfect in its value towards all. Now add in omnipotence and you now have an unassailable diety who is not only perferct, but perfectly loving and perfectly powerful. No matter what He does, it can't be argued against, because he has thought of all the possibilities in advance. You just can't imagine it, can you? Neither can I. But its fun trying.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Today, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by usgrant7 View Post
If everything you said, came true, wouldn't it be difficult, if not impossible to lie. What if you were the ultimate benevolent ruler? So not only everything you said was true, but it was perfect in its value towards all. Now add in omnipotence and you now have an unassailable diety who is not only perferct, but perfectly loving and perfectly powerful. No matter what He does, it can't be argued against, because he has thought of all the possibilities in advance. You just can't imagine it, can you? Neither can I. But its fun trying.
If one can't imagine it, then one has no reason to believe it can't also be logically impossible at the same time. For example, can you imagine a round square?

I still ask, what does it mean to be "benevolent" without an external standard of benevolence? To have any properties at all, something must have something else external to itself.
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Old Today, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by usgrant7 View Post
1. God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, and the ultimate authority on all things.
2. In order to freely choose Him, there has to be an alternative. Otherwise there isn't a choice.
3. If "A" = all that is good. Then the alternative must be what? The absence of good.
I know you'll pretend I didn't ask the question, but I'll ask it anyway.

How can we have free choice, and a perfect, all knowing, all powerful God?

If he has perfect knowledge, then he'd would know who was going to chose him, and who was not. If God doesn't know, then his knowledge is limited, and flawed.

If God knows all and he knows I'm going to reject him, and then I choose to accept him, that would make God wrong, and less than all knowing. Can I choose to make God wrong?

You can't have it both ways.

Last edited by orbamn; Today at 07:14 AM.
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Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by usgrant7 View Post
God is not bound by His Words, His words are binding. There is a difference. If God says a certain thing, that which he says can only be equal to Him, because he is the ultimate authority, there is none higher. Therefore the only thing that binds God, is God. Nothing higher, so therefore he can only swear by himself. He chooses to make his word, equal to himself, because it is the highest form of confidence. Math has >, =, and <.
Can God create a more powerful God than himself?
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