debate !! books !!! what is on topic !!!?

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Toujours tu as ton façon

I believe Jesus was against anything that came between people and God, especially rules. I think the point is well demonstrated in another frequently misinterpreted quote"

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden,
And I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me;
For I am gentle and lowly in heart,
and you will find rest for your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

This is Zen in its purest form. The contradiction/paradox is the key to understanding.

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

It keeps changing.

Right now the topic is whether or not Jesus was a Kung Fu Master.

""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17

Exactly. Jesus told us to rise above the rules/laws. As he said, "I am the Way" meaning the I, the self, is the Way to enlightenment/God. And when asked "What is the place to which we shall go?, Jesus replied with a typical Zen response, "The place where you can reach, stand there!"

It basically amounts to "start with yourself and find your own way. There is no other way!"

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

No, he fulfilled and completed the laws. He gave us a new covenant, he didn't negate or end any of the laws.

Jesus offered guidance to his followers, and instituted the church to continue that guidance. Every sacrament that priests perform only comes through the power of Jesus. While to some degree we all find our own way, the church is what Jesus left us to help us accomplish this.

...a lawyer, spoke up: "Sir, which is the most important commandment in the laws of Moses?"

Jesus replied, "Love the lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind!...Love your neighbor as much as yourself. Keep only these and you will find that you are obeying all the others."

Where does Jesus ever say one has to go to Church to find God? I can't find it. We don't really disagree. What you see as a new covenant, I see as a rising above rules for the sake of rules. I see the Church as an institution mostly to be interfering with this directive.

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

In this passage Jesus is summarizing the law. If you love God with all your being you will set time apart for him and follow the other religious commandments. If you love your neighbor with all your heart you won't break the commandments.

In saying this he is showing you a sure-fire way to know that you are following what God asks of you.

But the church doesn't keep rule for the sake of rules, and Jesus never negates or ends the old rules. He shows how to follow the spirit of the law and not be bogged down by the letter of it. He shows that the rules are just things you would do anyway if you love God and your neighbors.

Can you show me in Jesus words where he says we need to go to Church?

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Well Jesus built the church, told us to love God, and fulfilled the old law (Which included keeping the Sabbath).

Why wouldn't that mean to you that he wants us to use the church?