Well, things can make sense without critically thinking about them. Then when you get nitty-gritty about the details, you notice flaws that have major implications. Then they don't make so much sense anymore.

The point of debate is to point out such flaws to bring someone from a state of something making sense to them, to the point where they understand the flaws. Christians are trained, however, to ignore flaws and hold onto their beliefs as though standing firm in your beliefs is a good thing. I know this because I used to be one, and I remember the mentality quite clearly. I remember noticing flaws in the Bible or in my faith, but then I would happily throw away these flaws with the all-powerful excuse "Oh, I'm just human, I could never understand God..." In other words, I trusted the reliability of my faith over my own ability to think. I'm not saying you follow this particular pattern, but it does appear to be similar.

There is no point to debate if there is no point to thought, reason or logic.

You are pre-supposing a "value" to logic and reason that exists ONLY in your mind good sir.
I am pre-supposing a "value" to God and religion that exists ONLY in my mind good sir.

We're both equally flawed.

Flip a coin. Tails you win, you die, nothing happens, your brain dies and the only reality you know dies right along with it.

Heads I win, I die, I had faith in a God, and I hope I am judged as a decent person and then I enter another form of conciousness independent of my brain.

That's how it is.

We're here, we had no choice in the matter. We weren't born as insects or birds, we ARE human beings.
We have a heart, a liver and a brain. These will not last forever.

So now what do we do with this thing called existence.

If God exists, he is logical. Logic is thought. Without logic, there is only impulse and emotion. Without logic, there is no communication. Without logic, debate cannot occur. With or without God, debate, communication, and thought are all possible as long as you have logic. Surely God, presuming his existence, is all-powerful, but if he is not logical, then he cannot be expected to be very competent. A person without logic is irrational and insane, not someone with whom communication is meaningful. Logic is the very thing which distinguishes us from animals.

I would assume there would be value in the use of logic and reason even if there is a god... after all, it came from him and we are made in his image. Why would he give us reason if he didnt want us to question things rationally?
I propose we use as much of this time as possable to try to figure things out and not just accept that there is or is not a god. I think that's what a rational god would want from us. EXPLORE! Why else would he put us here?

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True knowledge exists in knowing what you don't know.

I just find it sad that he's defending his faith to the point of devaluing reason itself...

Would you please answer my one question. It gives you a chance to go on the "attack" as you called it, and stay off "defense".

WHY NOT ZEUS?

Since you don't look for, nor expect to find ANY empirical evidence, Zeus is no different from the Christian God.

If for some odd reason, you totally reject the idea of Zeus being your creator and God of the universe, then please explain why not Mohammad?

Since you have totally given up the idea of trying to justify believing in God.

Could you at least explain why you reject every other god?

Ixtellor

P.S. I submit that your religion is nothing more than your upbringing. Perham was raised to be Muslim, hence he is muslim. You were raised to be Christian, hence you are Christian. Your total religious experience is the result of you being brought up to believe that way.

P.P.S. Since God is so evident, would either Herk or Perham be Ok with the thought of NOT teaching children about religion until they have the intellect to process it all. Because as we all know, children will believe ANYTHING. (see Easter Bunny, see boogy man)

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George W. Bush "I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building"

Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

Since I've raised that way, I support it very much, that way, children could have stronger belief in faith than the parents.

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I crave therefore I am and that is all I ever feel
I hoped you'd understand, One love, One pain, One enemy
I toast to misery, as I dig into the devil's bone
And for eternity the pain became me
Unholy me alone...

What in God's name do you think I've been talking about ad nauseum?

Purpose and Meaning.

If there is no God.

There is no purpose.

At least not Universally, you can have your own inside your mind, but when you die, it dies with you.

God is eternal.

Sheesh.

pay attention people.

Good questions sir.

I will do my best to answer these.

I was raised Catholic. I don't begin for a minute to deny that how I was raised pre-disposes my bias towards returning to my roots. The culture in which we are raised shapes us, certainly our mind sets.

I agree with you. Why not Zeus? Why not Allah? Why not a pink unicorn? I cannot prove the existence of God and certainly not the Christian God.

As I have said. Christianity just made sense to me. I realize this may not be an acceptable answer for you. It's just a gut feeling. The Christian God loves humanity and wants us to love each other. It is God of hope. Perhaps someone feels the same about Buddhism or Hindu.

I just don't sit on the fence waiting for concrete, material, Mathematical proof and evidence of God's existence. I have made a choice in accepting Jesus Christ as the Son of God. It seems to me that a God who wants His children, you and I....us...to understand what God is about, He would create a Son in human form.

Christianity may just be a philosophy, I don't know. I transcend what I don't know into Faith.

Our greatest gift is freedom to choose based upon what we do know. You are a rationalist and cannot accept any God or any religion.

I understand this, I respect your decision.

I ask for one thing from you sir.

Please accept mine.

Even if Christianity is philosophy and nothing else. It is a guidebook for how to conduct one's life. I follow this as best I can, for in that- God exists, because I exist as do
my fellow Christians and our shared Faith.

Um, no, purpose isn't necessarily absent without God. Purpose is the intention that some being has in mind when they choose to do something. For instance, if there is a God, he had a reason, an intention, a purpose when he chose to create life.

People also have purpose when they chose to do things. When people lack goals, they fail to generate purposes for doing things, and thus they consider living, itself, to be pointless. When you say you are looking for purpose, you are just looking for something that can give meaning to your actions. God provides such a purpose... living up to the values and goals described by your religion.

However, this does not mean a God is the only source from which some can gain purpose. A person whose family was killed might live their lives for the sake of taking revenge on the killer. That is a purpose. A person who hates death might live their lives for the sake of conquering death. That is a purpose as well. God is only one solution to the search for purpose.