Political Forum  

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:07 PM
stekim's Avatar
stekim stekim is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 12,658
lithuania
stekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to all
Credits: 48,592
Default

Quote:
I'm being broad-brushed as a Christian.

I don't want to hear it.

That is the pot calling the kettle black.
I'm not telling you what you believe. Nor have I stated "Christians all......". That's what you have done. however. So it's not pot-kettle. I am basing your beliefs solely on what you have stated they are. You, however, keep telling me what I believe based on your own thoughts regarding what "atheists" think. Maybe others have broad brushed you, but I certainly haven't.

Quote:
Atheistic regimes, that kick God out and forbid organized Religion have blood on their hands the likes of which humanity has NEVER seen before. You like numbers, I'll give you numbers.
Religion has plenty of blood on its hands. And you know it. THAT's pot-kettle. The Communists were not bad because they lacked God. They were bad because their political philosphy is one where individual rights do not matter. Further, as someone who was born Catholic you should well know the wonderful things that church has done throughout history. I'm not blaming God for that, however. Just his spokespeople.
__________________
This space for rent.

Last edited by stekim; 04-18-2008 at 12:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #242 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:09 PM
Rotaerk Rotaerk is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 92
Rotaerk will become famous soon enough
Credits: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
I'm being broad-brushed as a Christian.

I don't want to hear it.

That is the pot calling the kettle black.

Atheistic regimes, that kick God out and forbid organized Religion have blood on their hands the likes of which humanity has NEVER seen before. You like numbers, I'll give you numbers.


61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill


I view the atheist as my Spiritual enemy, they rob humanity of hope.

I'm off the fence, I'll see you in the battlespace.
Assuming that occurred, it has nothing to do with atheism. The fact that the country's government is not based on some religion is irrelevant. There are religious and non-religious governments and people with equally blood-stained hands.
Reply With Quote
  #243 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:11 PM
Matticus77's Avatar
Matticus77 Matticus77 is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NJ
Age: 31
Posts: 222
Matticus77 will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotaerk View Post
Assuming that occurred, it has nothing to do with atheism. The fact that the country's government is not based on some religion is irrelevant. There are religious and non-religious governments and people with equally blood-stained hands.
I agree. Religious and non religious both draw much blood. I think that the way to look at it is that they are human. And humans do some raunchy stuff.
__________________
It is human to love and divine to forgive
Reply With Quote
  #244 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:16 PM
stekim's Avatar
stekim stekim is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 12,658
lithuania
stekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to all
Credits: 48,592
Default

Right. The fact people have done bad things wasn't the fault of religion or the lack thereof. It's because people always find a way to do bad things. Some in the name of religion, some in the name of politics, some because it's just fun.
__________________
This space for rent.
Reply With Quote
  #245 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Herkdriver's Avatar
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,228
usa
Herkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud of
Credits: 5,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim View Post
Right. The fact people have done bad things wasn't the fault of religion or the lack thereof. It's because people always find a way to do bad things. Some in the name of religion, some in the name of politics, some because it's just fun.
The tenents of Christianity are that humans have original sin. All of us.
The only salvation for this is through belief in Jesus as Son of God who died to
wipe the slate clean with God.

Any Christian who kills in the name of God trying to convert is NOT a Christian.

What has defeated the evils of Facism and Communism and kept them in check has been Nations which are
predominantly Christian in their value systems.

What is waging the war against Jihadist Islam and keeping them in check are the Nations which are predominantly
Christian in their value systems.

The freedoms allowed within the U.S. and other free Nations have been bought and paid for by the Christian value system.

To think otherwise is denying the reality of modern history.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 04-18-2008 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #246 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:37 PM
stekim's Avatar
stekim stekim is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 12,658
lithuania
stekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to allstekim is a name known to all
Credits: 48,592
Default

Quote:
Any Christian who kills in the name of God trying to convert is NOT a Christian.
I realize that's your take. But it's not in the standard definition of Christian. And certainly I think it's safe to conclude that actions undertaken by a church or a priest or a pope qualifies as having been done by a Christian.
__________________
This space for rent.
Reply With Quote
  #247 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:45 PM
Herkdriver's Avatar
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,228
usa
Herkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud of
Credits: 5,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stekim View Post
I realize that's your take. But it's not in the standard definition of Christian. And certainly I think it's safe to conclude that actions undertaken by a church or a priest or a pope qualifies as having been done by a Christian.
“A man must know his destiny… if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder… if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.”

Patton won every campaign he participated in. The same cannot be said of his well thought of opponents and enemies. Ultimately that is how the professional keeps score in these types of affairs.
Reply With Quote
  #248 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:46 PM
Rotaerk Rotaerk is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 92
Rotaerk will become famous soon enough
Credits: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Any Christian who kills in the name of God trying to convert is NOT a Christian.
I will ignore the logical contradiction resulting from your wording, because there's a more important, less pedantic issue.

While you may call the person "NOT a Christian" because he doesn't follow all the morals of Christianity, he still calls himself "Christian". There have been many religious holy wars in the past, violence done for the sake of religion, even if you might consider them to be against the religion's values.

I do not blame the religion, anyway. No matter what your belief, if you take up a tribalistic, us-versus-them stance with anything, things resembling holy wars can occur. Religion can result in this attitude, but so can patriotism and many other things which are often praised.

While such causes may unite people, they only unite some people, and dehumanize everyone else.

---

A very familiar and common example of this is gangs. People group up with the united cause of protecting their turf against "the others"... Pointless violence ensues. United causes strip reason and morality from people.

Last edited by Rotaerk; 04-18-2008 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #249 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 01:07 PM
Herkdriver's Avatar
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,228
usa
Herkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud ofHerkdriver has much to be proud of
Credits: 5,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotaerk View Post
I will ignore the logical contradiction resulting from your wording, because there's a more important, less pedantic issue.

While you may call the person "NOT a Christian" because he doesn't follow all the morals of Christianity, he still calls himself "Christian". There have been many religious holy wars in the past, violence done for the sake of religion, even if you might consider them to be against the religion's values.

I do not blame the religion, anyway. No matter what your belief, if you take up a tribalistic, us-versus-them stance with anything, things resembling holy wars can occur. Religion can result in this attitude, but so can patriotism and many other things which are often praised.

While such causes may unite people, they only unite some people, and dehumanize everyone else.

---

A very familiar and common example of this is gangs. People group up with the united cause of protecting their turf against "the others"... Pointless violence ensues. United causes strip reason and morality from people.

I'm not denying the Spanish Inquisition, Pedophilic priest scandals, Preacher scams absconding with donations made in good faith.

Christianity accepts that humans are flawed and will fall to temptations.
Success is measured by how far you bounce after you've hit bottom.

You still seem to want to limit the discussion of Faith to the logical syllogisms of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. Western thought is shaped by these also. However logic alone won't give you the courage to stand for your set of beliefs and enter the battlefield, where the only honor and nobility to human existence is truly experienced.

The rest is just going through the motions of day to day pedestrianism.
Reply With Quote
  #250 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 01:45 PM
Rotaerk Rotaerk is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 92
Rotaerk will become famous soon enough
Credits: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
You still seem to want to limit the discussion of Faith to the logical syllogisms of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. Western thought is shaped by these also. However logic alone won't give you the courage to stand for your set of beliefs and enter the battlefield, where the only honor and nobility to human existence is truly experienced.

The rest is just going through the motions of day to day pedestrianism.
You treat logic as though it is some kind of mainstream lifestyle, while there are alternatives or something... Logic is the means by which you derive truths from other truths, nothing more. Courage is certainly not even related to logic, nor to this conversation. I'm arguing with you, not trying to amp you up for a battle. In argument, logic is the relevant tool, not cheering and comforting.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Yahoo Furl Reddit

Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Better Alternative JavaBlack Abortion 2 03-22-2007 07:11 PM
Life vs. Faith Force-of-the-Truth Religion 9 02-22-2007 10:16 AM
My Faith and My Politics ForceoftheTruth Religion 2 09-14-2006 12:05 PM
Alternative Energy ForceoftheTruth Political Opinions & Beliefs 6 05-29-2006 01:11 PM
Ye of Little Faith JavaBlack Religion 132 01-13-2006 05:25 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4