There are other ways to control behavior, but yes, consequences tend to be the method that the government uses to enforce the law. Your point? This is exactly how the law of the Bible is enforced, only the consequence is hell rather than imprisonment or fines.

It's true that "believers" are controlled, for the reason I mentioned above. However, I never said that "God" was created for the sole purpose of establishing such control.

I think you've oversimplified the scientific perspective on the universe. You're using the word "randomly" in the same way as someone might say "magically". Scientists contend that "God" is an unnecessary mechanism when trying to figure out how things came to be the way they are. Philosophers contend that even if you build a model of the universe that includes God, it doesn't actually help explain anything: If the universe came from God, where did God come from? Why are "believers" so willing to accept that God didn't have to start somewhere, but they're not willing to accept the same about the universe.

Why exactly? Because you like the sound of the "fairy tale" over the "stuff happens" more? Or because you actually have logical justification for it being more likely to be true?


Just because something occurred naturally, doesn't mean it's easy to reproduce through engineering. You have to first understand the natural process, and then learn how to replicate it. Complexity does not imply greater intelligence is behind it.

1. I do not need any assistance on the tenents of Buddhism.
2. I have no idea how this is on topic.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

Okey dokes.

Most threads de-evolve into something other than there original intent.

I was pointing out the Rationalist point of view ultimately arrives at the dead end of what happens after one's death.

Science for all of it's mastery of classical physics, for it's conquering of Nature, for it's advancements, well ultimately my friend, it leads to nothing.

Why pursue knowledge, why seek to understand if there is no real purpose to it all?

Eventually our civilizations will turn to dust, our World will be swallowed up by gamma rays emitted by a dying Sun. All life on this orbiting rock will cease to exist.

I suppose future generations could inhabit other regions of the Universe...bearing in mind of course that the human vessel, our bodies are actually quite fragile. The radiation in space is quite deadly. Even with developing technology to achieve a "space-ship" capable of 50% of light speed. Any human cargo would never survive the journey outside of our own Solar System.

Ultimately humanity may have to resign itself to the fact that eventually our "footprint" in the Universe will be lost.

I believe Faith transcends this gloomy reality. It proposes a new reality outside of the observable one we enjoy everyday. Even grander, even more spectacular.

Of course, no one truly knows.

They don't call it Faith for nothing.

I believe each human life will be judged by God and that there is ultimate Truth and morality.

The wicked and the evil will suffer consequences.

it is however....... not my place to Judge.

I know. I was trying to prevent that here!

It's not a dead end. "Nothing happens" is clearly what could happen. You die. The end. Just like a bug. I know that bothers people, but so what?

It never claimed to lead anywhere. Which is fine by me.

That IS the purpose.

Pretty much.

Whether humanity resigns itself to that fact or not, it's still the case. Accept it, don't accept it. Either way it's going to happen.

I take no issue with faith. I only question it when it's spun as fact instead of what it is.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

I would rather sit on the fence than get squashed on the highway.

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

There are limitations to purely logical thought.

That is the GIST of my side of this debate.

Science alone, rational thought alone leads to nothing.

It explains nothing.

IT OBSERVES.

That all it does my friend.

Observes from the perspective of humanity.

This is not TRUE reality, it's only a perspective based upon observation.

Most of rational thought is merely observing a consistent pattern and deciding well that's a "law of physics" or "law of thermodynamics" or "conservation of mass"

yet it denies there is intelligence behind it.

It just Observes.

That's all your logic really is...it's empty.

Empty of what? But I will give you this: Religion is certainly full of it. No question there.

And I'm not sure how science "explains nothing". Quite the opposite is true. It explains a great deal.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

Science explains observations through the language of Mathematics.

I've taken Calc. I through Advanced Math.

Sacrificed a social life to get through that crap.

and for all the study, I find myself no closer to understanding why we all are here than I was before I cracked a book....

String theory, multiple-universes, you name it, it's out there.

The desire to find meaning,

is God.

I can talk all day about Bernoulli's Principal and fluid dynamics and how lift is achieved in flight....

but it's empty my friend without a purpose and a design

My Faith is far more important to me.

And that's fine by me. Glad you found the meaning you were looking for. Same goes for everyone else who found their meaning. I think that's wonderful for you.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

Love is what gives meaning to life.

for God so loved the World he gave his only Son to us.