But I love without God. So how is God necessary for that?

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

Your life was without meaning without your faith, that does not hold true for me.

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Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

God is so superior to us, he exists in such a higher dimension than do we that what is natural and ordinary to him is miraculous to us. The Bible recognizes this concept and uses it in every single description of God.

Faith, in all of it's forms are a gift from God.

It's obvious some of you have not received this gift yet.

Simply ask for it.

Using your rationale:

Keep in mind, that this is merely using a debating technique and I do not hold the following as my beliefs.

and if I think that genocide is okay and it doesn't seem like such a bad thing for me ....

that's okay then?

Afterall, it's all about what's good for me right?

How dare you judge me and tell me it's wrong!

How dare you!!!

Genocide is okay by me...Hitler was a GREAT man...a visionary!

Please tell me Catz....

Why was Hitler a bad guy?

Without using morality, or ethics or anything like that ,because afterall...if there's no point to Life...there's no point to our value system either....

Correct. Science is simply a tool for understanding the universe. It says nothing of what you should do in the world or what kind of person you should be. Science isn't everything.

Religion, however, is not simply a complement to science. Religion dares to say not only who you should be and what you should do, but also makes claims about how the world itself works: This is the realm of science, and they often conflict.

Somewhat correct. Science is the process of observing and modeling patterns in our observations. Understand that there's a difference between modeling (description) and explanation. You are correct that science does not seek to explain why the universe behaves like it does. Asking that question is outside the function of science, and answering it is certainly not within the power of science. One can consider this question, however, in the more general realm of philosophy, although you'll never get anywhere. Philosophers have been trying to prove God's existence for centuries.

Of course we observe from our own perspective. What other perspective do we have? Just because our perspective is limited does not mean we can use any other perspective: It is the only one we can use. We have no choice. The "true reality" is unknowable. To have faith in something beyond mere observation doesn't give you "true reality". A limited perspective may only show you pieces of reality, but anything you have to have faith for most likely isn't even a piece of that reality at all. Science may not be sufficient to provide you with all the answers, but faith gives you nothing further except comfort.

Science doesn't deny that there is intelligence behind the universe. It simply doesn't incorporate it into any of its working theories. If God were somehow observable, then he would be within the realm of science... because scientists would observe him, but no such observations have been made. Philosophically, it's conceivable that such a being exists outside observation, but if God is unobservable, we can't know: We have limited perspective. Besides, what's the point in acknowledging the existence of something that you can't interact with at all?

Horrible analogy. Catz isn't claiming to be amoral.

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Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

when you die:

1- you exist after it.

that makes my point proved.

2- you don't exist after it.

you won't remember your life. you even don't know that you had a life, simply because you don't exist. so what's the difference between a bad life full of suffering and hate and killing and being punished and a life full of love and living good and prospectus? you don't exist anyway. like you never was before. then there's no point in being alive. you don't have a purpose.

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I crave therefore I am and that is all I ever feel
I hoped you'd understand, One love, One pain, One enemy
I toast to misery, as I dig into the devil's bone
And for eternity the pain became me
Unholy me alone...

totally agreed. they're faking what they call the point of the life. in atheism philosophy, the purpose of life is death. period.

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I crave therefore I am and that is all I ever feel
I hoped you'd understand, One love, One pain, One enemy
I toast to misery, as I dig into the devil's bone
And for eternity the pain became me
Unholy me alone...

Good posts by all, I'm only encouraging the debate.

There are limitations to Faith of course.

I will not deny that.

Faith will not cure cancer in 99.99999% of cases or heal diabetes...human medical intervention is required although the power of prayer has statistically proven merit and also statistically those who reguarly practice a faith tend to live longer.

My challenge to the secular Scientific communities is simply to incorporate an ethical policy and start to ask the questions. Yes we can do this, but should we?

Things like stem-cell research, cloning, manipulation of the human genome, abortion....

These are amoral endeavors.

I used to have it, but it broke, so I returned it. Now, I just have hedonism.

__________________
Job 13:5 (New International Version)
If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.