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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by proof-hunter View Post
The true reason I laugh about Atheists is because to me their
best beliefs to disprove the existence of a creator is the belief
that: "Anything is posible if given enough time"
Not anything.
But certainly all the things you guys regard as impossibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proof-hunter View Post
This same belief is the same belief that a lazy person holds onto,
"I will be rich someday, I need do nothing but wait"
It would be more realistic if, say, this person was immortal.
Otherwise it is kind of difficult to compare this person and his one goal to the vastness of the universe over who knows how long with no specific goal in mind.
You are comparing a narrow wish with very finite boundaries to the variety that can come from the practically infinite.

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Originally Posted by proof-hunter View Post
But I ask the atheists to think in your mind the real solid reasons
you have that make you stand solid on your belief in evolusion.
then, after you have this in your mind, I want you to try to apply
this phrase to it. "If a frog is in a cookie Jar, does that make him
a cookie?"
...
What is that supposed to mean?
A frog becomes a cookie only when I bake it with flour and sugar and add chocolate chips.
Or when I define "cookie" as anything in a cookie jar...

Of course the latter resembles the typical reasoning behind God.
It's something we don't understand... therefore God.

So if I don't understand it, it's God?

What happens if I put God in a cookie jar?
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
But none are probable. There is no reason to suspect any of the infinite number of preposterous notions I or any raving loony could think up, is true. Same goes for any religion. There is no evidence.
And once again, there is no evidence to the contrary. Why do you automatically assume that it cannot be, when it is possible?

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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
This is ridiculous. Since I cannot prove that a teapot doesn't orbit Jupiter, or pink unicorns abound inside the sun, or giant frogs cause earthquakes, therefore it is a reasonable idea that all these things are true?
Not necessarily to believe it true, but to realize that it is possible. You have no evidence either way, correct?

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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
Yes, if you are willing to believe that anything my or anyone elses imagination conjures is as likely to exist as not to exist, than can I help you no further.
Why thanks DD, but I don't need your help. And until there is evidence for or against it's existence, it is possible.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:32 PM
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I remain unimpressed.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
I don't understand what you mean. It is theoretically possible that all the atoms of the atmosphere suddenly congregated over New York city, but it has never happened and by the laws of statistics it never will happen. Would you feel it was a sane belief to be a "solid-air-over-New-Yorkist"? Why not?
Yes it could happen. Science can only help to predict what will happen. Just because it has never happened, that we know of, in no way means that it will never happen. Provide evidence that it cannot happen and I'll gladly listen.

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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
Same goes for theists, or "orbiting-tea-potists" or "pink unicornists".
Yep, same thing. No one has ever seen the first organism to live, yet you believe it has existed. Where is your evidence that this organism has ever existed?

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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
But that is not improbable. That is the default position.
No, it is your default position. The billions of people who believe say different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
You presumably don't believe in orbiting tea-pots or flying spaghetti monsters or any other invention of a raving imagination do you? Why not, since they are possible?
You're right, I don't believe it. But I also do not dismiss it's possibility. As you say, it is improbable. But it is not impossible. Big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
Yes, I'm looking for evidence. If there is evidence for something, then that is a good reason to accept it is true.

And while we don't yet know the exact makeup of the first molecule which could copy itself, we know the rest of what happened after that. Please go read any book written on Evolution by a credible scientist. You'll be amazed.
Not too amazed, considering that the examples given are based on assumptions. There is no concrete evidence for the base of the argument. All the following evidence requires that those assumption be true in order for the evidence to support it.

Likewise, if you make a few assumptions, there is plenty of evidence for gods existence.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I remain unimpressed.
But which claim is more extraordinary?
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:58 PM
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The claim that a peasant in Judea was the sole savior of the world. Along with the idea that one out of 30,000 different denominations has the truth about him. And, that you can pick that right one accurately.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Yes it could happen. Science can only help to predict what will happen. Just because it has never happened, that we know of, in no way means that it will never happen. Provide evidence that it cannot happen and I'll gladly listen..
Thats not how science works. The onus is on the one making the claim.

Quote:
No, it is your default position. The billions of people who believe say different.
Billions of people believed the earth was flat.
Millions and millions of Americans believe Saddam ordered 9/11.

I believe there is a logical fallacy about your position...

Quote:
You're right, I don't believe it. But I also do not dismiss it's possibility. As you say, it is improbable. But it is not impossible. Big difference.
Then do you also NOT dismiss the notion that there is no god?

Quote:
Likewise, if you make a few assumptions, there is plenty of evidence for gods existence
Assumption #1 - Vishnu is the only god.
Assumption #2 - He is beyond human comprehension and outside the laws of nature.

There I just proved Vishnu is the only God and made it impossible to disprove it.

Do you actually use that strategy to win arguments?


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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtellor View Post
Thats not how science works. The onus is on the one making the claim.
So, the ones making the claim that there is no god must provide the evidence? Since the majority of the worlds population has been religious in some fashion for thousands of years, the claim of no god would be the contradictory claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtellor View Post
Billions of people believed the earth was flat.
Millions and millions of Americans believe Saddam ordered 9/11.

I believe there is a logical fallacy about your position...
A fallacy to my position that DD's position is there is no god? Or that billions of people who believe in god/gods disagree with him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtellor View Post
Then do you also NOT dismiss the notion that there is no god?
Exactly. Read my reply to Tuatara for my position on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixtellor View Post
Assumption #1 - Vishnu is the only god.
Assumption #2 - He is beyond human comprehension and outside the laws of nature.

There I just proved Vishnu is the only God and made it impossible to disprove it.

Do you actually use that strategy to win arguments?

Ixtellor
You took this out of context.

The evidence for the scientific theories I used all rely on base assumptions for the evidence to support it. People who use science to try to disprove god tend to accept these assumptions without question.

Based on that, if they were to accept the assumption, say for example that there must be a source for everything, then evidence can be presented for the existence of god.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Based on that, if they were to accept the assumption, say for example that there must be a source for everything, then evidence can be presented for the existence of god.
Causation.

Excellent point.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 05-14-2008 at 01:49 PM.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Causation.

Excellent point.
Thank you, Herk.
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