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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Compelling.

Keep in mind though White Fox
(omne vivum ex ovo)
Latin for~"all life from other life"
Law of biogenesis

No cellular life has ever been observed to arise from non-living matter.
There is no truly "standard model" of the origin of life.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omne_vivum_ex_ovo
It only had to happen once, over a period of millions of years, on the entire surface of the earth. No laboratory experiment could possibly hope to witness the actual formation of life. We can only prove steps in the process that would make it likely to happen, even if the probability of it happening is extremely small. Keep in mind, if something is infinitely unlikely to happen, over a period of infinity, it will happen.

And if I said "the world is flat" in Latin, would that make it true?
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
It only had to happen once, over a period of millions of years, on the entire surface of the earth. No laboratory experiment could possibly hope to witness the actual formation of life. We can only prove steps in the process that would make it likely to happen, even if the probability of it happening is extremely small. Keep in mind, if something is infinitely unlikely to happen, over a period of infinity, it will happen.

And if I said "the world is flat" in Latin, would that make it true?
White Fox.

The Universe is not infinite.

It began, according to current theory, with a Singularity...it exploded "The Big Bang"

what the Universe expands into...Empty Space...this is infinite, ...however......
The matter and energy contained within the Universe is finite.

According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, entropy will eventually cause the Universe
to go into Energy death. It will be floating matter and particles only.


my Friend, Science cannot disprove God, if that is what you are trying to do.

It can and does explain a lot...but there are a lot of empty spaces between the theories...
knowledge we simply don't have and may never have.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
White Fox.

The Universe is not infinite.

It began, according to current theory, with a Singularity...it exploded "The Big Bang"

what the Universe expands into...Empty Space...this is infinite,
This was simply the mathematic principle behind it. The universe may not be infinite, but the creation of life from organic molecules is not infinitely unlikely either.

Quote:
...however......
The matter and energy contained within the Universe is finite.
According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, entropy will eventually cause the Universe
to go into Energy death. It will be floating matter and particles only.
Not exactly, but close enough, and this is not the purpose of my argument.

Quote:
My Friend, Science cannot disprove God, if that is what you are trying to do.
I had no intention of doing that, and I know that it is impossible because the existence of God is a faith based question, and one that cannot overlap with the study of empirical observation that science is. I was merely pointing out the facts about the origin of life on earth.

Quote:
It can and does explain a lot...but there are a lot of empty spaces between the theories...
knowledge we simply don't have and may never have.
I agree with this statement completely.
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Last edited by White Fox; 05-15-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
This was simply the mathematic principle behind it. The universe may not be infinite, but the creation of life from organic molecules is not infinitely unlikely either.



Not exactly, but close enough, and this is not the purpose of my argument.



I had no intention of doing that, and I know that it is impossible because the existence of God is a faith based question, and one that cannot overlap with the study of empirical observation that science is. I was merely pointing out the facts about the origin of life on earth.



I agree with this statement completely.

Okay then.

The Miller experiment is one theory.

Last edited by Herkdriver; 05-15-2008 at 05:31 PM.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Cogito ergo sum.
I said please provide evidence that you exist. You thinking you exist is not evidence.
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Your logical conclusion is an assumption. There is no evidence to support it. There is no causal chain that traces it to it's origin.
I just provided the logical chain. Before the Earth was formed, there was obviously no life on Earth. A few hundred million years after it formed we know from fossil records that life did exist. Ergo, at some point in between, life must have arisen on Earth.
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It means that the majority of the population believe in some sort of greater being. Meaning that your conclusion is the contradictory claim. Meaning that the burden of proof lies on you.
Uh..no. The burden of proof is always on those who believe things for which there is no evidence. It makes no difference how many believe something if there is no evidence that what they believe is true.
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That regardless of how improbable you rank it, it is a possibility.
In what sense does that make a difference in this case?
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The big bang hinges on the Cosmological Principle, the assumption that matter is homogeneous and isotropic with in the universe.
Uh..no, it doesn't. The Big Bang hinges on pure observation. When we look into the night sky, we see that distant galaxies are moving away from us, and furthermore see that the more distant the galaxies are, the faster they are moving away from us. By simple calculation one can then calculate at what point all these galaxies were all centered at the same point. It turns out to have been around 13.7 billion years ago.

No hokus-pokus, no odd assumptions. Just rewinding of the film.
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Evolution requires the assumption that the adaptation seen in specific species gives cause to all species evolving into other distinct species.
Uh..no. Evolution explains how a given species has evolved from members of another species. It doesn't require any species to evolve at all, and in fact some species haven't evolved for millions of years.
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The origin of life on earth relies on the assumption that a mixture of chemicals gave rise to a living organism.
Once again...no. It relies on the fact that I previously provided. When there was no Earth, there was no life on Earth. A few hundred million years after there was an Earth, there was life on Earth.
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If you assume there is a source for all things, the evidence is in the creation of the universe, the beginning of life, and the human mind, just to name a few.
Not understood.
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The point of all this is that you rely on assumptions in the absence of evidence. This is the definition of faith, DD.
No. I make just one assumption: Our Universe works according to fixed laws.
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Yet when others do the same thing, you accuse them of being illogical and absurd.
They have faith in god, you have faith in science.
At least the religious are honest about it; they see their faith for what it is.
The religions, of which there are many, all contradictory, are just obvious inventions of human minds everywhere, longing for some meaning in their life and especially for some all-fatherly loving protector.

Last edited by DanishDynamite; 05-16-2008 at 12:55 PM.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
White Fox.

The Universe is not infinite.

It began, according to current theory, with a Singularity...it exploded "The Big Bang"

what the Universe expands into...Empty Space...this is infinite, ...however......
The matter and energy contained within the Universe is finite.

According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, entropy will eventually cause the Universe
to go into Energy death. It will be floating matter and particles only.


my Friend, Science cannot disprove God, if that is what you are trying to do.

It can and does explain a lot...but there are a lot of empty spaces between the theories...
knowledge we simply don't have and may never have.
I just wanted to point out that even though "our universe" is accepted to have a finite "beginning", that is not where the story starts, at least in some theories. The osculating model suggests that the "universe" expands and collapses over and over, though there is a chance it will continue to expand infinitely like our universe suggests.

Only point being that just because the our universe had a finite beginning, this may be only one of an infinite number of osculating expanding and collapses
.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
I just wanted to point out that even though "our universe" is accepted to have a finite "beginning", that is not where the story starts, at least in some theories. The osculating model suggests that the "universe" expands and collapses over and over, though there is a chance it will continue to expand infinitely like our universe suggests.

Only point being that just because the our universe had a finite beginning, this may be only one of an infinite number of osculating expanding and collapses
.
There is also the theory (or rather, postulation) that black holes lead to other universes as well.

What's really cool about this theory is the reincarnation theory of multiple universes, which is that, if the universe is continually regenerating or there are an infinite number of universes, and existence continues forever, then your body will eventually be reconstructed. The question is, will that person be you? This is really advanced probability, but you should look up the infinite monkey theory to get an idea.
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