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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:47 PM
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yeah but theres alot of stupid people..
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
So limit God to only the Judeo/Christian god of the bible? That's awfully limiting, isn't it?
Put in any God or Gods. The age of humans is but a spec throughout it's history. All Gods are described by humans. There is proof of that. But Humans described by Gods. Zero proof.
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And again, you can not provide any that it does not exist.
Cannot provide any evidence that Unicorns or tooth fairies exist. I think the burden of proof is on those who proclaim their existence. History, Geology and other sciences give heavy evidence to the direction that a God or Gods never existed.
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To definitively claim that God does not exist in any way, shape, or form is both unfounded and unsupported.
Well you would first have to describe this God or Gods and it's attributes and we can go from there. If there were any Gods they could stop this argument with ease.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2008, 10:24 PM
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I have a fairly weak proof of the non-existance of God. If you define the universe as everything in existance, and God is by definition not someone/something inside the universe, then God does not exist. I can already see holes in it, but it's better than any proof I've seen for the existance of god. Your move, people who disagree with me.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Put in any God or Gods. The age of humans is but a spec throughout it's history. All Gods are described by humans. There is proof of that. But Humans described by Gods. Zero proof.
Not all religions put people at the beginning of the earth. Not all religions put the world springing out of nothingness. And of course Gods are described by humans, who else is going to describe them? As far gods describing humans, why would they?

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Cannot provide any evidence that Unicorns or tooth fairies exist. I think the burden of proof is on those who proclaim their existence. History, Geology and other sciences give heavy evidence to the direction that a God or Gods never existed.
It is widely held that God/gods do exist. In claiming otherwise, you are presenting a claim that must have some supporting evidence. You are going against a belief that has been held for eons without proof. You say that sciences give heavy evidence that gods do not exist, and yet others say that these same sciences lends credit to the fact that gods do exist.

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Well you would first have to describe this God or Gods and it's attributes and we can go from there. If there were any Gods they could stop this argument with ease.
For that to be true, you assume that God/gods would give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what people think. Do you truly believe that man is capable of accurately describing a being that has no equal? You are incorrectly assuming that your knowledge defines reality.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 05:27 AM
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Not all religions put people at the beginning of the earth. Not all religions put the world springing out of nothingness.
Yes and I'm also aware that not all religions have a God or Gods. Some believe in a life force or some kind of energy. I met a girl who believed that an energy source came from from rocks, stones and gems. That all life on earth spawned from the energy of minerals. Bottom line is people make stuff up to answer the questions they yet cannot answer.
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And of course Gods are described by humans, who else is going to describe them?
The Gods
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As far gods describing humans, why would they?
To prove their existence. Every god ever described has had some sort of interaction with humans. Anyone can claim that God talked to them or they had a vision of God or they felt the presence of God or anything along those lines. Why would a God or gods chose a select few to interact with? Why not all?
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It is widely held that God/gods do exist.
Yes, in a lot of those cases many hold the belief that their god only exists and none others. This is where my signature comes into play which I noticed you conveniently ignored. Here it is just so you don't miss it.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.
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In claiming otherwise, you are presenting a claim that must have some supporting evidence.
Why does it need to have supporting evidence. Can you make the claim that the Wolfman doesn't exist? Does something only become a reality when enough people believe in it?
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You are going against a belief that has been held for eons without proof.
Atheism has probably been around longer.
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You say that sciences give heavy evidence that gods do not exist, and yet others say that these same sciences lends credit to the fact that gods do exist.
How so?
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For that to be true, you assume that God/gods would give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what people think.
But those who believe in God or gods think so. Why else would they pray or worship or even acknowledge them/him/her.
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Do you truly believe that man is capable of accurately describing a being that has no equal?
How do we know this God has no equal. Was this described by himself/itself or by humans?
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You are incorrectly assuming that your knowledge defines reality.
A reality that you nor one other solitary person can give the slightest amount of evidence to.
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Last edited by Tuatara; 05-10-2008 at 08:53 AM.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Yes and I'm also aware that not all religions have a God or Gods. Some believe in a life force or some kind of energy. I met a girl who believed that an energy source came from from rocks, stones and gems. That all life on earth spawned from the energy of minerals. Bottom line is people make stuff up to answer the questions they yet cannot answer.
This energy source fills the role of a god, and how do you know that these answers are not the correct ones?

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
To prove their existence. Every god ever described has had some sort of interaction with humans. Anyone can claim that God talked to them or they had a vision of God or they felt the presence of God or anything along those lines. Why would a God or gods chose a select few to interact with? Why not all?
Did your friend's energy source have contact with humans? You maintain an extremly limited view of what a god must be. As far interaction, perhaps God has tried to interact with you and have failed to listen.

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Yes, in a lot of those cases many hold the belief that their god only exists and none others. This is where my signature comes into play which I noticed you conveniently ignored. Here it is just so you don't miss it.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.
Yes, some do. And some believe that the various gods are all just different perceptions of the same god. Your signature has no merit in this discussion. I'm not dismissing anything. I hold that just about anything is possible, even if it isn't probable.

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Why does it need to have supporting evidence. Can you make the claim that the Wolfman doesn't exist? Does something only become a reality when enough people believe in it?
Atheism has probably been around longer.
You tell me, I'm not trying to define reality. I'm only insisting that the possibility that God exists is there, and that to say otherwise is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
How so?
As science advances, the randomness of everything comes into question. Life springing out of nowhere, the existence of the human mind, the orgin of the universe all give credit to some of force acting as an engineer to it all.

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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
But those who believe in God or gods think so. Why else would they pray or worship or even acknowledge them/him/her.
How do we know this God has no equal. Was this described by himself/itself or by humans?
A reality that you nor one other solitary person can give the slightest amount of evidence to.
Exactly! We only know a fraction of what is real, and even then our knowledge is constantly changing. To hold to absolutes when we have no proof or evidence is asinine. There may not be any god of life force directing the course of the cosmos, but there is the possibility the it does exist.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:38 AM
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“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.

Tuatara, this quote that you place everywhere is just inaccurate. Because even if people believe in one God, it still means that people believe in something greater than themselves. An atheist does not believe that there is a greater power. In a way, it seems arrogant
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
Yes you can, and any and all of them could exist. Some are less probable than others, but they can exist.
Yes, a bowl of petunias could be secretly controlling the US government and giant purple frogs from outer space could be appearing in my living room, but it isn't very likely, is it?
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Things from your imagination might exist, yes. But who is claiming that God comes from the imagination besides you? You denounce people for believing in God without scientific proof, and yet you believe that God does not exist without scientific proof.
I do so because the delusion of any sort of God or Gods existing is exactly as unfounded as any other delusion.
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Again, they might exist. And if a billion people believed in those frogs, and saw proof of their existence, even if only subjectively, then the argument would be that much stronger. Reality is not limited by your knowledge, DD.
Reality is certainly not limited by my knowledge. And it doesn't matter how many believe in giant frogs or a flat Earth or any other nonsense. What matters is whether there is any evidence that such a belief is true.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
Because the big bang is nonsense to me...
This is the logical fallacy called "The argument from personal incredulity".
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