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Old 05-30-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Should we be moral even if we don't believe?

It seems to me that even though many of the Biblical prophocies are coming to pass that people still seem to have a problem with morality. By morality I mean the guidelines provided within the scriptural texts of what is right and proper for man. I am willing to provide unbiased and non-scriptural reasons for remaining moral to those who ask for it and no topic will be disregarded. If you want to know a practical reason to abstain from pre-marital sex or from drug use I will be more than happy to provide you with my insight on the matter I will ask however that you take it one topic at a time or I may only answer the first topic and ignore the rest.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:30 AM
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Just have to interject with this part.

Quote:
a practical reason to abstain from ... from drug use
Are you talking about all drugs including over the counter and prescription drugs which many people have died from and have overdosed on? Are you including Alcohol which by many definitions is a drug? Or are you only relating this to the issue of illegal drugs, whether or not the drug is less or more harmful than those described above?
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:04 AM
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There are many reasons beyond gospel to be moral.

Humanists, buddhists, and even athiests define moral living based on a framework that can be equally, or perhaps more sound than religious texts.

Moreover, finding morality through scripture creates ethical conflicts. A person can rationalize just about any deed, if it is based on some deity, and their own personal interpretation of what the deity says they should do.

A perfect example is the polygamist mormon sects.

In my opinion, the most sound framework of morality stems from reason.

Scripture lends itself to this idea:
Quote:

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
– Proverbs 14:15. (KJV)
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default Biblical Morality

I agree with the above poster. Biblical morality is based on reason. In other words, things are not bad because God says so; rather, God says things are bad because they are bad in themselves. Premarital sex is forbidden because it can lead to financial, social, medical, and psychological problems. Lending at interest is verboten because it creates animosity between two people and can lead to broken friendships. In much the same way, homosexuality was forbidden to the Israelites because they needed to repopulate Canaan and build a large base for growing their communities. Perhaps some acts, like murder, break some kind of sacred supernatural law, but for the most part I believe that God's commandments are less, "THOU SHALT NOT" than, "You really don't want to do this."
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WormChancellor View Post
Premarital sex is forbidden because it can lead to financial, social, medical, and psychological problems.
Funniest thing I have ever heard. Got any proof to support this?
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:57 PM
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How's this for a funny little idea: Morality is based on how an individual should act in order to sustain his life - the right to his life being unalienable. No 2000 year old tome is required to be ethical, I assure you, but one must engage mind and think logically.

SO:

Drug Use: My life (pls try to remember this). If I am to be true to my moral code, I will not indulge in harmful drugs. It is up to me to rationally decide whether tobacco, weed, alcohol etc add to my life experience or not. Maybe I will decide a little is okay but to over-indulge is not. Either way, it's my decision.

Pre-marital sex: Again, my life ( I know, you've probably got it by now but I can't stress how important this is.) May I suggest that sex (marital or not) is a celebration of romantic love and to deny oneself of this is not life-enhancing; some might say it is the exact opposite. And, of course, what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is of no concern of anybody else - unless there is a pistol-packing wife in the back-ground...

Now, apply the same ethics to, say, homosexuality and see how you go. (Hint - remember, always to keep your nose out of another person's life. If what they do doesn't impact on your right to life then it is not your concern.)

Forgive me if I live my life as if it's real - I don't know why I'm here anymore than anyone else does but, hey, I'm determined to enjoy it. Carpe Diem
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WormChancellor View Post
I agree with the above poster. Biblical morality is based on reason. In other words, things are not bad because God says so; rather, God says things are bad because they are bad in themselves. Premarital sex is forbidden because it can lead to financial, social, medical, and psychological problems. Lending at interest is verboten because it creates animosity between two people and can lead to broken friendships. In much the same way, homosexuality was forbidden to the Israelites because they needed to repopulate Canaan and build a large base for growing their communities. Perhaps some acts, like murder, break some kind of sacred supernatural law, but for the most part I believe that God's commandments are less, "THOU SHALT NOT" than, "You really don't want to do this."
Is that why there is a Tunisian saying "women are for babies, young boys are for fun (sex)

Ps I am a rich hermit with a limp(leg not Dick) and a brain still brimming with great dollops of healthy sexual perversion at 57yrs, I guess you are right then.

Ps what does the worm refer to?
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
Funniest thing I have ever heard. Got any proof to support this?
STD's..........
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:28 AM
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Morality is a product of human interaction. Religions of various sorts simply codify morality in such a way as to flesh it out a bit. Instead of religion being the origin of morality, it is simply one of the vehicles for reinforcing it.

Notions of morality can be arrived at intuitively, and as a product of reason, so one really does not necessarily need religion to act or think morally.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster View Post
Morality is a product of human interaction. Religions of various sorts simply codify morality in such a way as to flesh it out a bit. Instead of religion being the origin of morality, it is simply one of the vehicles for reinforcing it.

Notions of morality can be arrived at intuitively, and as a product of reason, so one really does not necessarily need religion to act or think morally.
I agree that one can arrive at a notion of ethics with reason and with role models.

The law can be said to be a vehicle for enforcing morality. I'm not sure that I agree that religion is.

In my experience, spiritual practice softens the hard edges of conceptual mind and melts away rigidity.

With that comes openness and spontaneity--and freedom. Freedom to be who we are apart from rigid concepts we have of our selves or others project onto us.

Last edited by wind; 06-02-2008 at 06:58 AM.
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