Originally Posted by Herkdriver

The Sun is stationary relative to our solar system; what you probably mean is Earth's elliptical movement around the Sun.
More specifically the Earth orbits the barycenter of the Sun.

Originally Posted by amh73

There are numerous threads on religion and Jesus lately. Many people have asked me about proof. Both sides have issued blanket statements like "Christianity makes the most sense" or "there is no proof of the existence of God." I couldn't answer these questions in one post so I will be giving the evidence that convinced me. I will do three threads.

Part 1 - (This one) - Did Jesus exist at all? Maybe he existed but not as the Bible says he did? Maybe the Bible is true on the other hand? I will be presenting in this thread only evidence of his existence and the authenticy of the Biblical record plus other historical evidence. I want deal with his claims in this thread. That will be in the next one.

Part 2 - The claims of Christ and whether he made any claims at all.

Part 3 - The Resurrection - After all, it this this didn;t happen, there is nothing to the Christian faith.


In the following days I will try to answer these questions and any others on this topic:

1. Can the 4 gospels be trusted?
2. Were the 4 gospels preserved accurately? Did someone find something they disagreed with and pull out an eraser or add to the account?
3. Are the 4 gospels the only evidence? Is there anything else?
4. How about archaeology? Does it support the existence of Jesus or contradict it?
5. If Jesus existed at all, is the historical Jesus the same as the Jesus that churches follow today? (You may be a little surprised at my answer to this one and I'm an evangelical Christian)


Let's please keep blanket statements out of this. Let's present evidence from both poins of view and scrutinize that evidence. Everyone has an opinion, but opinions aren't the intention of this thread). I will post my evidence once I get it organized. However, I went ahead and made the post so that others can make their points. Remember, we aren't talking about His deity yet, just his existence and the accuracy of the manuscripts. (They are accurate doesn't cut it. They are inaccurate filled with contradictions doesn't cut it. Bring the evidence.)

Originally Posted by Makedde

Originally Posted by BillyBob

Is there a 'Part 2' to this thread? I just want to know so I can avoid it.

Originally Posted by Herkdriver

The Sun is stationary relative to our solar system; what you probably mean is Earth's elliptical movement around the Sun.
More specifically the Earth orbits the barycenter of the Sun.

The barycenter is the center of mass. Not to be confused with a Catholic mass although ironically a Catholic, Nicolaus Copernicus, took care of this in the 16th Century.

"the Arizona Daily Wildcat refers to the film as "internet-bull(*)(*)(*)(*)"

I concur.

Nice try though!

A for effort!

Originally Posted by fifthofnovember

Firstly, of course I meant the Sun's apparant movement, which is why I referred to the Sun's path "across the sky" not "through space". From your comments (nice try, A for effort), it is obvious that you think I have an agenda. I do not. I brought the movie up because I don't know what to think about it. Some of the things it mentions I have verified through wikipedia. These are: that the sun reaches it's lowest point on Dec 21, and begins its rise again on Dec 25, after 3 days of remaining at the lowest point. Other things claimed by the movie I lack the astronomical expertise to verify or deny, and I was hoping someone else could show if the sun's rising path goes through Virgo (virgin birth) and descends through the Southern Cross (the crucifixion), as is claimed. But like the OP said in post #1, people need to post evidence, not opinions. Just saying, "That's bull(*)(*)(*)(*)" doesn't cut it.

Originally Posted by Herkdriver

I read the Wikipedia site on "Zeitgeist"
It gets very little praise from actual Biblical experts and scholars.

You are free to search wikipedia and look this up. In addition many other reviews of the film are similarly phrased as pretty much b.s.

Not much Science, a whole lot of conjecture.

Originally Posted by Yeshua_Lives

Jesus Christ is still performing miracles.....Jesus Christ rose from the dead....for his spirit is eternal and lives for ever......Jesus Christ wants us all to know that anyone can win the Kingdom....the weak, the suffering, the poor, the rich, the dead....the Gospels make Jesus Christ out be exactly who he is.......The Messiah...The Redeemer.....He Loves You whether you believe in him or not.