There are numerous threads on religion and Jesus lately. Many people have asked me about proof. Both sides have issued blanket statements like "Christianity makes the most sense" or "there is no proof of the existence of God." I couldn't answer these questions in one post so I will be giving the evidence that convinced me. I will do three threads.

Part 1 - (This one) - Did Jesus exist at all? Maybe he existed but not as the Bible says he did? Maybe the Bible is true on the other hand? I will be presenting in this thread only evidence of his existence and the authenticy of the Biblical record plus other historical evidence. I want deal with his claims in this thread. That will be in the next one.

Part 2 - The claims of Christ and whether he made any claims at all.

Part 3 - The Resurrection - After all, it this this didn;t happen, there is nothing to the Christian faith.


In the following days I will try to answer these questions and any others on this topic:

1. Can the 4 gospels be trusted?
2. Were the 4 gospels preserved accurately? Did someone find something they disagreed with and pull out an eraser or add to the account?
3. Are the 4 gospels the only evidence? Is there anything else?
4. How about archaeology? Does it support the existence of Jesus or contradict it?
5. If Jesus existed at all, is the historical Jesus the same as the Jesus that churches follow today? (You may be a little surprised at my answer to this one and I'm an evangelical Christian)


Let's please keep blanket statements out of this. Let's present evidence from both poins of view and scrutinize that evidence. Everyone has an opinion, but opinions aren't the intention of this thread). I will post my evidence once I get it organized. However, I went ahead and made the post so that others can make their points. Remember, we aren't talking about His deity yet, just his existence and the accuracy of the manuscripts. (They are accurate doesn't cut it. They are inaccurate filled with contradictions doesn't cut it. Bring the evidence.)

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Post of the week:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno You just don't relate to my sense of humor. How about this. Gosh darn funny man living in a whale. doncha know that gawd could do that I betcha he could. wink wink.

This is like a never ending discussion.....


Wake me up when it's over.

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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Post of the week:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno You just don't relate to my sense of humor. How about this. Gosh darn funny man living in a whale. doncha know that gawd could do that I betcha he could. wink wink.

There is conclusive historical evidence that a man traveled in the areas that Jesus traveled in and actions are documented that are eerily similar to those of Jesus. I think it's pretty definite that he was an important guy. Whether he was a prophet or the son of God depends on your beliefs. Personally, I think he was a great guy with even greater ideas but was by no means god-like. I even speculate whether he thought he was the son of God. I'm not sure Jesus saw any of this coming nor wanted it. Regardless, people are being good in his name so I have no qualms with him or with people who believe he was God.

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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
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The woman in my avatar is Cristina Scabbia and the woman in my profile picture is Tarja Turunen
Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

Post of the week:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno You just don't relate to my sense of humor. How about this. Gosh darn funny man living in a whale. doncha know that gawd could do that I betcha he could. wink wink.

These are very good questions. Look for my later posts in the next thread, because I will be posting what I have learned about the 4 gospels and how they portray Jesus. We have to look at the motives people would have had to embellish the story. I will do that in the second thread. However, before we do that we have to look at the evidence that they were actually written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The authorship of the first theree hasn't been attacked as much as John's authorship. This is because Matthew was a disciple, but not a major one. Mark and Luke were not disciples at all. If you were going to fake authorship why not pick Peter, James, John or Mary? They were closest to Jesus. Actually, people did fake authorship of Mary and Peter. These gospel accounts couldn't be validated and were left out of the Bible. They are sometimes called the gnostic gospels and there are people who still accept them to this day (Davinci Code kind of stuff). The gospel of John is attacked the most because he was in Jesus' inner circle so to speak. It is also different from the other 3 gospels because it is a collection of miracles instead of a biography.

The obvious and overused answer to this is: faith.

Now for my personal opinion, I believe Jesus existed and that he did indeed spread good teachings. Now, did he do everything in the Bible? I don't know. I'd like to think it, but if tomorrow someone discovered the right I wouldn't think different because it has kept me on the straight and narrow. Like I said in another thread, it's the extremists that have damaged religion.

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There shall ye find Light

Be thou faithful unto Death
And I will give thee a crown of Life

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

If the question regarding the existence of Jesus came up in a court of law, the case would be dismissed within hours. All available evidence points to the fact that he was more likely to have been a mythical figure rather than an historical figure. Certainly the proof of his existence is not to be found in the Christian New Testament. It claims his birth was in Bethlehem in the Roman province of Judaea, where his family had gone for a census during the time of Augustus. But there was no census at the time stated and Judaea was not a Roman province at the time.

When a census was held in AD 7 it did not require anyone to leave their place of residence. Similarly, the New Testament locates Jesus's birth as in the time of King Herod, who died in 4 BC. Roman and Greek writers of the time make no mention of Jesus and a supposed reference by the Jewish-Roman writer Josephus is almost certainly a result of the imagination of medieval monks ( see Josephus, "The Jewish war", London 1981).

Even the first authenticated reference to Christians, by Tacitus writing in about AD 100, does not mention Jesus by name but simply uses the Greek "christos", used for any supposed messiah. The New Testament gospels are full of contradictory statements. In places, especially in Luke, there are powerful expressions of class hatred. For example, the rich man goes straight to hell, while the poor man, Lazarus, goes to the "bosom of Abraham" (Luke 18.19-26).

Jesus preaches, "It is easier for the camel to go through the eye of the needle than for the rich man to enter the Kingdom of God (Matthew 16.24). And Luke's version of the Sermon on the Mount declares, "Blessed are ye poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger, for ye shall be filled....But woe unto ye that are full, for ye shall hunger (Luke 6.20-25).

By contrast, elsewhere the message is one of reconcilliation between rich and poor (For example, see Matthew 5.1 and 5.6; Matthew 25.14-30).

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
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