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  #591 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:24 PM
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It sounds like your position is more agnostic than atheist.
Not according to the dictionary! Atheism is the lack of belief in God. I don't believe God exists. Hence, I fit the bill. Dead on, in fact. I'm not saying I'm not sure about it. I flat out do not believe it. But beliefs can and do change as new evidence is presented. Saying it's possible does not imply I'm sitting on the fence. It's possible that one day I will love Toto. But I don't right now. I have a very firm position on God. I'm not on the fence.
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  #592 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by davidryder View Post
The big bang theory doesn't explain the creation of the singularity. No science does. There are philosophical branches of physics that attempt to address it but it's just that - philosophical speculation. I don't say that to discredit any science but if you are saying the m-theory is enough explanation for the creation of the universe for you then you are asserting as much faith as I do to believe there is simply a creator.
I don't know anything about m-theory and I don't know anything about why you brought it up.

I don't know even precisely what the theory that I've been talking about is called, it is simply an expansion of the Big Bang Theory using quantum mechanics to explain the origin of the situation which brought about the singularity, I simply have a lot of experience in theoretical and quantum physics and have shown how it is entirely possible for the universe to be created from nothing (nothing, not a singularity, the singularity comes from nothing) using the physics that we know today and have proven through empirical evidence (as we know that quantum fluctuations exist).
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  #593 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rascleattop View Post
Unwilling? No. To say your theory has "Firm basis" is wrong, there are still uncertainties in it. To say your theory is much more complete than the theory of God is wrong, the theory of God is just as complete in regards to itself. Though taking your assumption that I "forgot all my previous realities," then yes I would be much more inclined to accept your theory as the only truth, but that's also unreasonable. Our entire lives are separated into three parts: mind (non-physical), body (physical), spirit (non-physical), and theories/proofs/math/science only account for 1/3 of the universe to me, and God accounts for the rest.
hehehe- the theory of gawd.

You just plug every hole in our knowledge with gawd - that's the whole theory of your gawd.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
I don't know anything about m-theory and I don't know anything about why you brought it up.

I don't know even precisely what the theory that I've been talking about is called, it is simply an expansion of the Big Bang Theory using quantum mechanics to explain the origin of the situation which brought about the singularity, I simply have a lot of experience in theoretical and quantum physics and have shown how it is entirely possible for the universe to be created from nothing (nothing, not a singularity, the singularity comes from nothing) using the physics that we know today and have proven through empirical evidence (as we know that quantum fluctuations exist).
I believe it is the m theory (one of the string theories) that you are talking about. It address the creation of the singularity with essentially parallel universes.

I thought it was you who had mentioned string theory earlier but I guess I was wrong. Anyway - I agree with you but you have to understand that this theory is a very new theory and is something that can't be observed by any current conventional means.

M-Theory:

Some physicists use one of the superstring theories to explain God also. You don't have to watch the first one to watch the second one but it will help to understand what the God Theory is based on.

God Theory (a subset of string theory):
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:34 PM
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That second video ends with "Both views are equally defesnsible but you can - if you want - believe in both science and God and a universe with a purpose."
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  #596 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaro View Post
hehehe- the theory of gawd.

You just plug every hole in our knowledge with gawd - that's the whole theory of your gawd.
Sahrie eye dohn't noe wut "gawd" iz - heheheheheh!

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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
The quantum fluctuations that we observe and that are common occurrences are small, but the proof is in that the formation of the universe is possible in this way. Combine that with the theorem that all things possible will happen given x amount of time, factor in the infinitely large amount of time that simply exists, and you have a plausible explanation for the beginning of the universe.
Plausible yes, but still doesn't completely rule out the possibility of a God (which is obviously a plausible possibility too, maybe not for you, but for millions of others it is). In regards to my faith in God, whether the Big Bang Theory is proven to be completely factually true or not doesn't concern me at all. If the formation of our physical universe is proven to have a scientific explanation, my personal faith in God himself will remain (I mean God may have made the Big Bang happen too as part of his plan ). God explains what science can't. Though the idea of Big Bang being true would serve as quite a rude-awakening for the fundamental Religionists out there who are still believing the Earth is only 6000 years old, and ignorantly choosing to completely reject evolution due to being completely blinded by religion - their entire grasp of how they perceive life would slip out beneath them. I consider it a good thing I don't classify myself in that 'fundamentalist' group.


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Originally Posted by davidryder View Post
That second video ends with "Both views are equally defesnsible but you can - if you want - believe in both science and God and a universe with a purpose."
My point exactly.
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  #597 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rascleattop View Post
Plausible yes, but still doesn't completely rule out the possibility of a God (which is obviously a plausible possibility too, maybe not for you, but for millions of others it is). In regards to my faith in God, whether the Big Bang Theory is proven to be completely factual true or not doesn't concern me at all. If the formation of our physical Universe is proven to have a scientific explanation, it does not mean my faith in God himself has to be revoked as a result (I mean God may have made the Big Bang happen too as part of his plan). Though the idea of Big Bang being true would serve as quite a rude-awakening for the fundamental Religionists out there who are still believing the Earth is only 6000 years old, and ignorantly choosing to completely reject evolution because their blinded by religion - their entire grasp of how they perceive life would slip out beneath them. I consider it a good thing I don't classify myself in that 'fundamentalist' group.
You can't really deny the Big Bang occurred, though some religious have tried to cite it as how God created the universe. It's an easily provable scientific fact that the universe emerged from a singularity.

My question for you is, why do you create God for no reason to explain something that can be explained without creating anything?
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  #598 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
You can't really deny the Big Bang occurred, though some religious have tried to cite it as how God created the universe. It's an easily provable scientific fact that the universe emerged from a singularity.

My question for you is, why do you create God for no reason to explain something that can be explained without creating anything?
Not really Foxie dear, there are still mysteries to how it all occurred. As for your question, you're assuming something that's completely false and using it as the basis, so there's no need for me to answer it. I didn't "create" God, and I also don't use him to explain things that are already explained. So...I guess I can't help you figure that out, sorry.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rascleattop View Post
Not really Foxie dear, there are still mysteries to how it all occurred.
I said no doubt to the fact that it occurred.

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As for your question, you're assuming something that's completely false and using it as the basis, so there's no need for me to answer it. I didn't "create" God, and I also don't use him to explain things that are already explained. So...I guess I can't help you figure that out, sorry.
Then how do you derive God from reality?
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:01 PM
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Then how do you derive God from reality?
What do you mean? How does one "find" God out of "reality"? I guess the answer to that is completely subjective to the individual because I'm sure everyone senses God (who believes in him) differently. I've already somewhat explained to you how I perceive him in this thread.

Your question is posed in a way that if I answer it will seem as if I'm trying to make you "understand how to find God" and I think "deriving God" should be an individual task, completed with as little influence as possible. So my answer of how "I derive God" holds no merit (and would bore you).

I sense you're not going to leave me alone until I tell you that "I don't believe in God" and/or bend only to the laws of science .. which I can assure will take a lot more pondering and experiencing before I jump to those conclusions.

SO with that said, I hope we can all live and let live, holding hands and singing oh happy day with the sun setting off in the sunset.



Goodnight.
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Last edited by rascleattop; 08-07-2008 at 09:01 PM.
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