i hate to agree with you, truebrit, but you are right. Religion, especially Christianity, is not meant to cause aggressive behavior in people. I think religion becomes a "crutch" so people can justify their actions. I mean, we have had battles for land and power since our ancestors could walk upright(kind of interesting that i believe in god, and evolution!), and probably even before that. Two things really annoy me:
1.)Militant, religious fanatics who kill in the name of God/Allah and/or Jesus
2.)The ignorance of the interpretors of religious works, only using it to satisfy their own needs.

I was gonna say people who hate organized religion because they think of it ONLY as a form of control, but the more i thought about it, they more i understand where you are coming from. It is not meant to brainwash you, although some have taken it that far. I can see it as disapproving of organized religion, but how can you disagree with the teachings of Jesus, the orginal bleeding liberal, only a little more open minded.

Sorry to take this slightly off topic, but...

Sure I might agree with some religious teachings, but I do not want to bind myself with beliefs. I retain the option to do anything I want to, not to be forbidden by any religion. (Okay, the law restricts me but beyond that...) Why should I follow what someone else said? If I agree with it, I probably knew it anyway, or would have thought about it sooner or later.

I don't object with others following religions, but I prefer to retain my freedom of choice.

On Topic: As others have noted, organized religion has really been corrupted quite throughly over the years.

no doubt, i completely see i to eye with you in terms of not wanting to restrict yourself with beliefs.

I think i was ironically pointing out that all these right-wing Bible huggers who push for was(basically Bush supporters) who say they are devout christians, but they have no tolerance for anyone other than wasps(white anglo-saxon protestants)

And yes, organized religion has its problems, they are hypocrites, but all people are hypocrites.

Ditto, you said it.

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So this is my perspective. I do agree religion is in general a load of **** but for many people it adds something to their lives and is very much needed. Ad long as they are not enforcing it upon others lik eGWB, then I have no problem with others following it.

However, my perspective on religion is this: I think it is a litle narrow minded to think that when you feel something amazing, something magical... "the touch of God" that this therefore comfirms your church's interpretation of the Bible. This may confirm to you that some kind of higher power exists, but going so far as to pluck one religion out of hundreds of variations, and claim that this one is it, this is the one that all those feelings comfirm....is going a bit far.

When I sit high above the ocean waves and listen to them and forget myself, I would say I can feel "God" or something there, beyond my understanding but there is a LONG WAY between that and wandering into the next church I see and giving myself up for the glorification of God in certain ways and having undying faith that the way this church worships is the right way, and their interpretations and teachings are what God approves of....

I think you are closer to "God" or your inner spirit, whatever you want to call it, whichever way you look at, from an inward ot outward perspective, but you are closer to that thing that gives you the feeling, right there on the cliffs, feeling it.

Why go and try to define that with words and books and hyms and other people's prayers?

You hear "God" talk to you more, when you open your mind and avoid restricting yourself to man made boundaries (books, bible, teachings). Following other people's interpretations leads you further from your own personal "God".

Listen to your own heart. Nobody else's

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Lizardfish said
"However, my perspective on religion is this: I think it is a litle narrow minded to think that when you feel something amazing, something magical... "the touch of God" that this therefore comfirms your church's interpretation of the Bible. This may confirm to you that some kind of higher power exists, but going so far as to pluck one religion out of hundreds of variations, and claim that this one is it, this is the one that all those feelings comfirm....is going a bit far."

Very good point, and i completely see where you are coming from. It may happen on a personal level, and i think we are seeing signs of it today, however, not many, that people are looking to more than one religion for enlightenment. I mean, look at buddhism, islam(the non-extremists), judaism, etc. and see the positive things that they bring people. Other religions do the same with Christianity. I cant think of the specific names, but some of those eastern religions hold Jesus up on a very high platform. As Christians, we should also at least respect other religions for what they say, especially if they preach love, the central teaching.

"When I sit high above the ocean waves and listen to them and forget myself, I would say I can feel "God" or something there, beyond my understanding but there is a LONG WAY between that and wandering into the next church I see and giving myself up for the glorification of God in certain ways and having undying faith that the way this church worships is the right way, and their interpretations and teachings are what God approves of...."

it must go hand in hand. Some people go to church, looking for an answer to questions. Other people just go because they feel obligated to. but, i again can see what you are saying. But like i said before, the church and it's congregation dont always see eye to eye. It is also important to realize that just as much as the church has a human touch to it, it cant ever be perfect. But never think that you are above the church, at least that's my philosophy.

"You hear "God" talk to you more, when you open your mind and avoid restricting yourself to man made boundaries (books, bible, teachings). Following other people's interpretations leads you further from your own personal "God"."

Couldnt agree with you more. The bible cant have ONE interpretation. there are so many parables and metaphors in there, that it is hard to take it at face value. But if you choose to read it, it should be used as a GUIDE in your life.

You sound like a really spiritual person, you just have problems with the church and the problems it has had for the past 2000 years. But it isnt God's fault or even the Apostles, it's our own fault, guilty by simple human nature. Trust me, a LOT of people feel the way you do.

Did not take wrong way. Liked what you had to say.... but I doubt I will ever be able to define what God is, and follow even Christianity in the broadest sense.

I want to be good, and love others and care for the planet, just because I was brought up to know what is kind and what is not. If that gets me to heaven, fine. If it doesn't, then I still lived a life of kindness and I'll know I tried my best and others benefitted from me.

I don't like the accept Jesus as your saviour stuff or go to hell*. I don't like curch (of any kind) and I don't like the Bible, and don't regard it as any kind of guide for my life and probably never will. I don't belive that if there is a God like the Bible says, that he made us in order to glorify himself and wants to be worshiped, while all around there is suffering and pain.

If some "God" made the earth and created us intentionally, I believe this god wants us to appreciatte life through our personal thoughts and our actions torwards others. But I doubt he expects us to have faith in one kind of religion to get into the pearly gates.

But I don't know if there is a God like that if there is one at all. If there isn't, it certainly doesn't stop me being spirtual with myself.

I don't know what to believe and I don't think I should know and I am not ashamed of that.

I am really happy though and good things happen to me. People who are "saved" seem to think that their lives are suddenly enriched compared to others, and that those who are not saved are "lost" and missing something in their lives.

It feels great to throw my hands up and say "I don't know, and I don't think that is a bad thing at all". I feel fine with that.

But, the church serves many very well and I do not dispute that.

L.

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I am really happy though and good things happen to me. People who are "saved" seem to think that their lives are suddenly enriched compared to others, and that those who are not saved are "lost" and missing something in their lives.

Yeah, those born-again christians really get on my nerves sometimes. They are very intrusive, and frankly, sometimes, a real pain in the arse.

I don't understand where you guys are coming from. I'm a "bron again" as you call me, but I am certainly not a "?wasp?" I think you guys are functioning from a misunderstanding. True Christianity is not like that. Have you ever even opened a Bible?

Yes, i have read the bible many times. For your sect, that is ALL you guys follow. Nothing else. You have to interpret every line of that book so you can follow it whole-heartedly, without any questions. Why do you think there have been so many different sects that have broken off from Protestantism? One doctrine can cause a group to break off and form their own church. You guys create divides in something that shouldnt be divided at all.

by the way, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant=WASP. It's a general term.

Dont question my faith. It is not your place to judge; or did you forget that part?