The 'Christianity-Wrong' Revisited Thread

[Clara-Listensprechen]

Niceguy "closed down" his thread because of the insults, but I'm a person who's got a thicker skin and already know that Political Forums is rife with insulters. so here goes.
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That topic started with the matter of Christians barging in on gay marriage, and I happened to have done some secular research regarding the book called The Bible on this matter.

I discovered that when Abraham got "chosen", there were these guys called Philistines and Canaanites, both of which got eventually tossed on their ears by Abraham & Subsequent Co. Archaological digs have discovered that these Philistines were Greek in origin, eating pork and doing ancient Greek things like engaging in homosexual conduct which they considered normal.

The Bible departs from this conduct--and the eating of pork, and circumcision--based not on morality bases but on based on making political distinction.

The Bible makes a whole lot more sense as a political document than it does a spiritual one. To the Christian who reads this for the first time: You have no basis for denigrating archaeological data until YOU can explain how John, the author of the Gospel of John, was unable to recognize two of the apostles by name, identifying them by description only. And explain how this same author is or is not an apostle himself based on his third-person reference to John Zebedee as if this person was not himself.

As a matter of fact, when it comes to a lot of discrepancies in The Bible, you have a LOT of song-n-dance explaining to do.

Commence.

[SporkLord]

Keep the insults out of this thread, or it will meet the fate of its predecessor. I know religion can be an emotional topic, but it can be discussed rationally as well.

[Clara-Listensprechen]

And you already know that insults abound elsewhere on the board, you're just making an exceptional rule for this section. Otherwise said, you've already killed it.

Bye.

[Clara-Listensprechen]

Before it bites the dust, I'm going to quickly post my stance--The Middle East and the rigged 2004 election is proof enough to me that the religion factor in politics has to be brought to a screeching halt. Since the 2000 election, the current evangelist-in-chief has made everybody's religion my political business, and I'm mad as hell and I won't take it anymore.

Additionally, I have done a lot of research (much already posted on this board in the past) but there are those and many more reasons discovered since to disallow factual validity of the book refered to as The Bible (Standardized KJAV assumed).

I will close this thread with this test (posted response not required--this should open your eyes to some stark facts about your holy book:

SELECT ONE: The original 12 Apostles by name are:

1) Simon/Peter
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John of Zebedee
....James of Alpaeus
....Judas Iscariot
....Phillip
....Bartholemew
....Thomas
....Matthew
....Simon the Zealot
....Lebbeus Thaddeus

2) Simon/Peter
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John of Zebedee
....James of Alpaeus
....Judas Iscariot
....Phillip
....Bartholemew
....Thomas
....Matthew
....Simon the Canaanite
....Judas of James

3) Simon/Cephus
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John
....James
....Judas Iscariot
....Phillip
....Bartholemew
....Thomas Didymus
....Matthew
....Simon Zelotes
....Nathaniel

4) Simon/Peter
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John
....James of Alpaeus
....Judas of James
....Phillip
....Bartholemew
....Thomas
....Matthew
....Simon the Zealot
....Matthias

5) Simon/Peter
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John
....Levi
....Judas Iscariot
....Phillip
....Bartholemew
....Thomas
....Matthew
....Simon the Canaanite
....Nathaniel

6) Simon/Peter/Kephus
....Andrew
....James of Zebedee
....John Zebedee
....Judas
....Judas Iscariot
....Phillip
....Nathaniel
....Thomas Didymus
....Some unnamed guy known only to arresting officials
....Joseph of Arimathea
....John

BONUS QUESTION-- Name all the apostles listed in the last of the 4 gospels.

Anybody wanting to actually discuss this matter further, the discussion will be confined to PM or email. Thank you.

[Hansmoleman]

The Bible makes a whole lot more sense as a political document than it does a spiritual one.

Your argument can never, ever win over any Christian who truly believes what the Bible tells them. Yes, there are discrepencies. But aren't there discrepencies in everything? You have to understand that an antiquated document like the Bible is not sacred because of its logical explainations, but because of its spiritual and sacred aspects, based on faith and not reason. The Bible is NOT a book of answers, it is a book of questions.

So while I agree with you on what you have presented, I think that you are wasting your time if your goal is to "convert" a believing Christian to your way of thinking. To them the details are not so important, it is the underlying truth. You either believe or you do not, there is no middle ground.

[Clara-Listensprechen]

Regardless--as a believer, you're either aware of what's in that book you believe in or you're not.

And if you believe without reading it, think about what conclusions you've jumped to like a sheep led to slaughter.

The Middle East is an ongoing tinderbox that threatens the rest of the planet and it's mainly over religion--and I'm not going to take it any more. There is no religion on the planet that trumps the value of the planet to nonbelievers who have to live here, too.

This planet IS NOT yours to trash. It belongs to other people.

clistensprechen@yahoo.com

[Hansmoleman]

May I refer you to the communist regimes in the Soviet Union and North Korea?

I would argue that they are even WORSE. A people without values are bound to be ruthless and hostile towards those who do have values.

By the way, I do not refer to myself as a Christian in the traditional sense. I am a believer, but not blindly. I don't adhere to any doctrine that any religious organization tells me is the "truth", the truth should be self evident.

[Vinyar1032]

I actually wrote the paper against Christianity. Niceguy shut it down because I did not post it here. It is under Gay rights.

I am defending Gay Rights for a friend of mine who is. Since I also have a very Christian friend, I was fighting against doing this, as not to offend him. But I couldn't stand it after someone said God hates homosexuals. Personally, that is all the proof I need to say Christianity is false. If God is perfect in all ways, why would he hate the children he made, and gave a chemical in the brain to cause the attraction to the same gender? Personally, I believe no perfect god or parent would hate any of their children, but be disappointed with them from time to time. But no parent would burn their child for living their life the best they can, simply because it breaks a few rules. What child has never broken a rule?

[Hansmoleman]

But I couldn't stand it after someone said God hates homosexuals. Personally, that is all the proof I need to say Christianity is false. If God is perfect in all ways, why would he hate the children he made, and gave a chemical in the brain to cause the attraction to the same gender?

What you are condemning is someone's version of Christianity. Find me a verse in the Bible that says that God hates gays.

[Vinyar1032]

I am using what people say. Not what I know. People say God hates Homosexuals. If so, that is all the proof you need. And yes I am using one view of Christianity. But if that version is true, then it is all the proof needed.