Jael,

Non-sense!

The point of this discussion is about knowledge!

The test:

If Jesus(pbuh) was G-d would he be ....All knowledgeable?

The answer should be YES! because this is a characteristic of G-d! However, I prove that Jesus(pbuh) is NOT all knowledgeable! and therefore, NOT God!

For we know this because of this:

EXODUS 31:1-5


1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 See, I have called by name Bez'aleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah:
3 and I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
4 to devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
5 and in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.

JAEL and all Christians and Everyone,

The above from EXODUS has shown us all the knowledge of G-d and that he could give it to anyone. This is one of the many characteristics of G-d.

NOW, I will show all of you that Jesus(pbuh) is NOT G-d and is NOT all knowledgeable and therefore NOT GOD!. This will be simple without fancy words just evidence from the Gospels itself !!!!!!! I will also prove that many who BELIEVE every word of the Gospels are following a tampered and a contradictory source. The Gospels are tampered because of its contradictions unless they follow the Formula:

Islamic Sources > Old Testament > "tampered" Gospels.

The overwhelming evidence:

Luke 8:42-48


42 for he had one only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying.
¶ But as he went the people thronged him.
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

This evidence above is final and CONCRETE evidence that Jesus(pbuh) is a Prophet ONLY!

However, I will now show EVERYONE that there are CONTRADICTORY similar passages from two other Gospels. Remember, that the writer of this Gospel also wrote the Book of ACTS. Therefore, now the Book of ACTS is also in question?

The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts have the same author because of the name " THEOPHILUS " in the beginning of both the Gospel of Luke and the Book of ACTS!

Now, the contradictory accounts from the other two Gospels:

The Gospel of Mark says:

MARK 5:27-32


27 when she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

This Gospels is in the middle if this contraversy between the other two Gospels. Here it presents Jesus(pbuh) as somewhat knowledgeable.

The Gospel of MATTHEW says:

MATTHEW 9:20-22


20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 for she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.


Now, this Gospel state and expresse that Jesus(pbuh) was all knowledgeable. The Question that bothers me is that the writer of this Gospel already knew what the woman was thinking!!! in verse 21 it states: "She said within herself" this is evidence that Gospel of Matthew is:

( 1 ) Fabricated and False.

( 2 ) The Gospel of Matthew came much later than the other Gospels or it was compiled much later.

( 3 ) I may have to present later that Matthew, the tax collector, is an imaginary person or rather conjured up by the writers of the Gospels or Paul or someone later. Matthew is also known as "Levi" in the other Gospels:

MARK 2:14


" And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Al'pheus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him."

LUKE 5:27-28


27 ¶ And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.
28 And he left all, rose up, and followed him.


CONCLUSION:


1. Jesus(peace be upon him) is a prophet which has been give a gift from Allah(subhana wa Ta'ala) among the Jewish people:

Quran 2:87


" We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay! "

2. MICAH 5:2-5

Is a summary of the Islamic evidence above which state that Jesus(pbuh) is prophet and the final Messiah for the JEWS only,however, my opinion is that Prophet Jesus(pbuh) had more than 12 disciples and it should be 15!

The contradictions and the questions surrounding MATTHEW would make this theory possible!

2 ¶ But thou, Bethlehem Eph'ratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. ( Connected with RUTH 4:10-11 & DEUTERONOMY 18:1-8 ONLY )
3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.( Connected with DEUTERONOMY 18:1-8 ONLY )
4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. ( Connected with Islamic evidence above QURAN 2:87 and other future Islamic prophecies )
5 ¶ And this man(Prophet because of the term "man") shall be the peace, when the Assyrian ( interpreted as ROMANS by the Rabbis in the Talmud and the definition of "Assyrian" = "Romans of the East" ) shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal( The Jewish version from a Jewish source state "Princes" rather than "Prinicipal" ) men.

7 + 8 = 15!

( 3 ) All the evidence above proves that Jesus(pbuh) is a Prophet ONLY!

HASAN

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search


I realize this is a very cheap shot. But i'll post it anyway =-P


Can you stop making fun of my religion please? thank you.


edit:

40000 links! that should keep him busy!

__________________
"The belief that nothing exists outside your own mind--surely there must be some way of demonstrating that it was false" - 1984

http://qumran.com/Refuting_Christian...roof_texts.htm
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ...ection-14.html

http://messiahpage.com/htmldocs/whynotj.html
http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse...=tqak&offset=1
http://www.geocities.com/bennoah1/
http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm#Jesus
http://moshiach.com/explore/kb/index...x_v2&id=62&c=4
http://www.geocities.com/buddychai/Religion/Jesus.html

__________________
“Been living here in galus for a life too long" - Matisyahu

Perhaps I forgot what good CONCRETE feels like here in Southern California, but I'm not seeing the 'evidence'.....only your opinion.....

Certainly you're smart enough to realize that Jesus was NOT asking WHO because HE did not know. He wanted the woman to speak up.....to trust in Him....it's not going to happen unless you're willing to reach out, or 'speak up'.....

__________________
II Cor 4:18

I'm a strong believer that religion and government should be seperate, which makes me wonder why they even talk about religion on a site called Political Forum dot com.

But it is my opinion that you are going to hell

If I'm wrong I've wasted a few sunday mornings if you're wrong well...

Jesus asked many questions when he was on earth. Is your argument that this proves he is not the Son of God because He would know everything if He was truly the Son of God?


I asked before -- why do so many atheists feel the need to try to "convert" people? Is it because you are worried you may be wrong and you want as many people as possible in hell with you if you go? Are you trying to convince others - or are you trying to convince yourself?

__________________
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~Ronald Reagan

The 12th Man has a good point about atheists trying to convert people to their side. It's probably because deep inside it's hard to truly convince yourself that there is no purpose to life. Because if this life is all that matters then it truly is purposeless because even if your remembered for thousands of years eventual you will be forgotten or we will all be dead, after all if we have no creator then all we are are really smart animals and animals all eventual become extinct.

Well, she WOULD have a good point, but I think Hasan is a Muslim, not an atheist.

Everyone tries to convert people to their way of thinking, within and without religious contexts. Take me: I'm an agnostic, which basically means that my response to "my God is bigger than your God" discussions is "who cares?" But I'll still occasionally try to persuade people that my way of seeing things is the right way.

But if you disagree, I won't call you an idiot or say you're going to the big Eternal Barbecue Pit. I'll just shrug and change the subject.

__________________
Man up.

"Conversion" is a small box that believers are incapable of thinking outside of. I now bring to your attention Harry Houdini, whose activity is considerably more similar to that of an atheist--debunking and exposing fraud for the fraud that it is.

__________________
I shall continue to be an impossible person as long as those who are now possible remain possible.
HuffPo's Off The Bus campaign coverage project....Off The Bus Blog

Well if no one is an idiot and none of you are going to hell, how about a 3-way tagteam cage match?

WWE Payper view event of the millienium!!
Muslim assasins vs christians crusaders vs the heathen horde!!
OrderNOWowowowow!!!!

__________________
.




"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts