I've noticed that all the world problems, warfare and such, have been directly influenced by peoples affiliation with a single religeon. If there WAS no religeon, we wouldn't have these problems. But then again, humanity is all about splitting itself into groups and whispering things about that other group. All through time it's been a struggle between all religeons, especially for the Jews. They've been blamed for anything and everything for centuries. Those who started the inquisitions must have forgot that Jesus was a Jew and that his early followers were also Jews. If Islam didn't exist, would the arabs still be violent? Would we even call them arabs if they werent Islamic? Post your opinions please.

Freedomisntfree

...it would be something else. There are plenty of conflicts in which religion has no share, several of which are quite bloody.

See this article for explanation:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/strife.php

What would you call them? Middle Easterners?


Like Spork said, if its not religion, its something else. It not Hitler or Stalin, then someone else - and the list goes on...

Darken

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We can look no further than the communist revolutions in Russia (20+ mill) and Cambodia (2+ mill) to see that millions can die in the name of secularism. In fact, I would guess that secularism has the distinct honor of first place in mass killings in modern history.

The Inquisition, which kept very good records, was only responsible for ~17,000 deaths. Witch trials, in the hundreds. The genocide of 800,000 in Rwanda was more related to tribal war than religion. Even Hitler's plan of extermination was based significantly upon genetics.

I believe religion offers a great role in humanity across the world.

Of the 20+ million to die from the period of the Russian Revolution, and Lenin/Stalin's purges, comparatively few were killed due to religion. The Russian Revolution was not for secularism, though Lenin brought it as a bi-product, it was for seizing power. The USSR never managed to crush religion, the peasants especially were particularily adamant to stay religious.

Of the roughly million killed in Cambodia, there was little rationale behind the deaths in Cambodia, most were caused by starvation than actual executions. Secularism was not an important thing there.

To point out some conflicts that religion had an undeniable effect it, for example: The four crusades, the Jihad of the 7th century. There are plenty of other wars that religion had its hand it, but those the extent of which is questionable.

I think you are proving my point Spork (that is, if you are arguing against my hypothesis). The "Godless" governments have been as, if not more, responsible for mass murder than have religiously based governments. Specifically, communist governments love to clean house. And yes, Stalin didn't just murder 20+ million people over secularism. But, Stalin and the people who responsible for working many of those 20 million to death in Siberia, had no scruples about it either because the government/state came first.

..but the reason those "godless" governments committed mass murder was to secure their grip on power, much like their theocratic counterparts.

Religion has caused a great deal of anguish and strife through history, but there have been no true purges in the name of "secularism". For example, anyone who opposed the communist dictatorship was either executed or sent to Siberia, be it for whatever reason. Stalin had no scruples because he was a bloodthirsty tyrant who saw enemies everywhere (IMO of course), not because he was secular, he was even less consistent than Lenin to persecute religion. (Stalin was training to become a priest before WWI and the Russian Revolution stopped him, odd ehh?)

What I disagree with is, "In fact, I would guess that secularism has a distinct honor of first place in mass killings in modern history". Stupidity holds that honorary place.

I can't imagine a world without religion... and i don't think its because of my imagination. Religion and humanity go hand in hand. And in that im including philosophy...
Everyone is a philosopher... at least in the sense that they like to muse about things.
Its much like the old and useful term, hope.
Guys need hope, dreams, aspirations, aims and goals...
Religion is like being able to hope in something of major significance. In the sense that it includes the whole world, or a community. A shared goal, hope or love...?....

If every religion today were abolished. Outlawed. Or erased from every mind. People wouldnt stop believing, they would meet in secret, like the secret churches in china. Or People would form new ones. New religious beliefs would pop up. Humans have to believe in something.

Wars are caused by desires. Whether you want that land, or you want something beyond that land, or you want the power, or you want the money or you just want to kill those nations. And it can be due to lust, anger, or God.

In this, i would say war is inevitable, while the world is consisted of conflicting beliefs. Which from my experience, or from what I've read about our history, that is never going to change.

Perhaps wars might be stopped if the world is run peacefully.... i don't know... but people will always conflict.

I would also like to say im not a pessimist.

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same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present."
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I basically agree with featheredfool. Religion is a bond with humans and alot of us need it, we all have believes which is what religion consists of.
However war is inevitable if it wasnt caused by religion it would be caused by opinions. Everyone has opinions and war would be caused by people who think thier opinions are right and the other persons are wrong.

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Theoretically speaking: Godless governments don't have scruples about the deaths of citizens, as long as its for the greater good of the state. Religiously based governments cherish the lives of its citizens (believers) and does have scruples about their deaths. This is why there has been mass murder in modern revolutions beyond anything history has ever seen.