Most of America is Christian. Christian culture dominates. There is no chance of a non-Christian being elected president. Yet Christians seem fully convinced that they are victimized.
If Christians are ever discriminated against in any real way, it is rare. If anything, they are kept from harassing other people in public institutions with preaching and threatening about Hell. They consider childish insults, constructive criticism, and simple out-loud disagreement to be evidence of bigotry against them, even though they have more control than anyone else.
They are the one group that can stop scientific progress by saying "No. Look at this book." and actually get away with it.
Wake up! You are not in any way discriminated against, persecuted, or victimized. Go on with your faith if you wish, but please drop the persecution fantasies. They're getting old.

Feel better now that you've gotten that off of your chest?

Memo to everyone: It is grammatically impossible for a majority to be "victimized" or "persecuted".

Christians *are* persecuted in other countries where they are a minority. But not here.

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Man up.

You summed that up in a much smaller and nicer-sounding way.

[/quote]
Memo to the illogical and ahistorical...
"It is grammatically impossible for a majority..." Very little is impossible in grammar usage and even less in fuzzy logic. We have recently witnessed an example of a minority persecuting a majority in Iraq. The minority Sunni population had been crushing the majority Shi'ite people for decades. The majority of the population in Kuwait are not even citizens of that state and are routinely discriminated against and exploited by the minority 'citizen' population. The slave population of South Carolina exceeded that of the free. You don't argue that those people legally defined as property were not victimized, do you?

My apologies. I shall rephrase.

In a democratic society such as ours, it is grammatically impossible for a majority of voteholders to be persecuted by a minority of voteholders.

In Iraq, nobody had the vote.

In colonial America, slaves did not have the vote.

Today in America, every adult over the age of 18 can vote (minus a few felons). 70% of them are Christians. 85% (IIRC) are believers of some sort.

It is patently ridiculous for Christians to claim they are persecuted or otherwise marginalized in this country.

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Man up.

to Cass R.Sunstein (U. Chicago Law),legal fundamentalists such as Clarence Thomas argue that states might be permitted to establish official churches. In fact Supreme court judges like Thomas and Scalia are the "activists" in that they are the most willing to dismiss precedent and overturn laws created through the legislative branch: in other words, they are willing to circumvent the will of the people in hopes of recreating their idea of the will of the people in 1778. I am not sure that a majority of vote holders are any longer safe against the skewed logic and determined strategy of the minority.

[/quote]
Agreed! It is the Christians who are the persecutors of the intellectuals, the educated and the independent minded. I grant you that there are plenty of non-paranoid Christians but as long as the Robertsons and the Falwells remain the face of this religion here in the USA, Christianity will continue to corrupt the soul of the country.

I wouldn't go that far. Non-Christians don't really face "persecution" here either. I don't think even the most activist Christians persecute so much as they cannot fathom why people object to them splashing their religion all over the public square.

Things would go much better if people would remember three things:

1. Religion is a very personal subject, and should generally remain private.

2. Religious speech, like other speech, is Constitutionally protected.

3. On those occasions when someone ignores #1, then remember #2. And iinstead of blowing a gasket, be polite and understanding -- while also clearly and firmly explaining why you find their actions inappropriate, even if legal.

I reserve my gasket-blowing for state-sponsored expressions of religion, which I think treads much closer to the line of legality, as well as having all sorts of other repercussions that I think government has no business sparking.

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Man up.

If Christians so hate their alleged persecution, why do they never speak out against the Christians who make them look bad? They demand that of Moslems to make up for scumbag terrorists. Instead even the nicest Christians I've known will use the "means well" excuse for the nastier ones.

I used to be a Christian and saw myself in the same mindtrap. I defended the faithful jerks to the non-Christians and tried to explain that you couldn't judge an entire philosophy by the fact that more than half of the adherents you've met were dirty rotten hateful scumbags. But I also defended non-Christians of merit to the Christian Lords (didn't every high school have these pompous Pharisees lurking about), thus losing popularity with them (as though I liked them anyway). Do those of you who argue against those irritated by other Christians also argue against other Christians about the merits of others (in the tradition of Jesus sticking up for harlots and tax collectors)? If so, good for you. If not, why do you deserve to be embraced by those you won't defend? You are after all the ones with the higher ground. Why do you defend the Pharisees instead of the tax collectors (metaphorically, for all you literalists)?
You understand that non-Christians have a negative view of Christianity due to being belittled and even persecuted (people are beaten and denied privelage for going against Christianity- you just don't see it from your position) by Christians from a young age. It is only natural that these images are the ones that stick. Do you offer unconditional friendship and support as a Christian to counteract this? Once again if you do, good. If not, shame. Instead you yell at the nonbelievers and reinforce their scorn.

Instead of being victims, try going out and being Christians. Not in the preachy sense, but in the nice and giving sense. At least then the "Christian-haters" will have a footnote in their book of nasty Christians about one who made the religion look good.
In order to love your neighbors you should try understanding them. Then and only then can you do unto them as you'd wish for them to do unto you if the situation were reversed. Shouldn't your preachers be telling you this rather than a psychotic sociology junky with his own religion? That part about treating others as you'd like to be treated is the part I still like and I believe it"s supposed to be one of the most important things in the religion- way above the rules about gay people, male domination, and all the other "social" issues.

So go out and be Christians instead of Crusaders or Bigots or Victims. Make people like you and quit whining. I think I sounded like a Republican just then, but oh well. Go. And fire your incompetant preacher. If he can be outperformed by the Reverend Java Black, then he sucks.

My work here is done. I will now merge with the infinite. What do you mean no one is buying it? Oh well. You're stuck with me for the rest of my life.

I'm glad you all had your fun forum, but take a look at yourself!!!! what did you just do??...oh, that's right, you persecuted us as we "preached about hell". I go to church every sunday and every saturday, and i haven't heard a sermon about hell in about 3 months, and that was more about reaching out to non-christians. Yeah, we aren't perfect, but would you feel offended if i made a slanderous comment about your mother? Because to the true christian, God should be closer to you than a mother, meaning any comment said about Him is ultimately interpreted as an extremely well planned attack by Satan. Which it is. And by the way, Christians are not the majority. If we count by how large a religion is, than probably, bu if we include atheists, i think we lose the "majority vote". And also, about a non-christian not getting voted in as president, i think the race in 2000 was pretty close, if i am not mistaken...

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I'm moving to Canada

Mr-Soviet